Damage additively stacking instead of multiplicatively

I feel like this needs to be adressed further, since in my opinion it fell too much under the radar, considering how the game has now been balanced around these numbers for well over a year.

While I am not certain how the different damage amplifications stacked with each other, but if we assume they are all different (if they have a different name), the change is quite significant for classes which utilizes hunter.

Bounty hunter is a very good example of a class being hit incredibly hard by this change, considering he can stack a large amount different multipliers.

A bounty hunter example could be:
25% hunter, 20% chaos, 10% infantry, 20% increased damage after crit (talent).
If all of these functions as seperate buffs, that’s a wopping 198% damage with the old stacking and 175% with the new. This is the very edge case of course, but the damage reduction is quite significant and will destroy a whole bunch of breakpoints for no apparent reason.

I just don’t see the point of this change, it’s just a classic case of 1 step forward and 2 steps back change, which they are very known for by now.


First almost any seperate property was multiplicative before and still is. The only difference now is that race and armour are additive now. Many already used it that way to create builds. The over all effect of this change is only noticeable on the shade and BH build for max dmg.
Given all other changes of 2.0 this doesn’t matter.


If it kills certain breakpoints, which leads to certain builds being “unviable”, how does this not matter? I struggle to see the logic here. You could make the same argument for any change which reduces gameplay variety.

It’s a change that affects power Vs by 1-3% while it did indeed force a select few builds to use one more power Vs when it was first introduced pre 2.0 ( got rewerted because it FS’s branch handling I guess) 2.0 did the job for good this time.

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I am aware it got fixed, that’s not the point I am making.

The change did nothing for the majority of classes, but removed other viable builds, essentially reducing build variety for no reason at all. It’s like removing a class, saying that it doesn’t matter, because all others are unaffected.

But I digress, what’s the point, it all falls on deaf and incompetent ears either way.

Lock thread please.

Well were arguing some very minor thing and basically the only thing that puts me on FS side here is that power vs is now one modifier simplifying the game.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that this removed viable builds (especially given the current state of the game with other things of far more severe impact…).


I mean yes, but if you’re worried about build variety THP and stagger talents are about 100x more problematic than several % of power. To the point that I’d call this issue almost completely negligible by comparison.


Ironically damage resist buff stack multiplicatively

I actually forgot to add in 7% temp power from talent and stagger. If all of these have been changed to additive instead of multiplicative (and how can we tell exactly, except meticulously test everything), it’s a combined damage loss from around 254% (20% stagger) or 296% (40% stagger) to 202/222%. Yup, not a significant change which destroys builds relying on hunter and other buffs at all.

Secondly, pointing out other flaws does not somehow negate another, so I don’t see why you’d even bother. Especially considering how this has been them spending man hours to actively make the game worse.

Can you please provide some specific examples of builds that lost their breakpoints due to this change? Or at least one such build?


It’s literally in the very first post?
Any Sienna career with hunter as well. A typical strat is bolt staff and just spam into hordes for easy procs.

Breakpoints also counts for melee by the way.

I’d like to see a specific example, like: before the change, my Bounty Hunter could one-shot the X enemy with Y weapon crit to the body while using Z build. Now, he can’t.


It was clearly explained further up in the thread that this change ONLY affects power Vs armour and power Vs race properties. We know this because it was also stated as such in the patch notes…

So no, it literally is just a few %, like 3% difference tops. So yeah I stick by calling it negligible.

I’m aware pointing to other issues being bigger in no way invalidates the issue you’re talking about. However, this is a feedback space and I’d definitely prefer it be focused on major issues until those are fixed. As far as I’m concerned the additive multipliers is little more than a distraction from a whole bunch of issues that actually matter to the majority of people playing the game. It’s like if you’re trying to get medical attention for someone who is bleeding out and there’s someone running around screaming and demanding immediate medical attention for a paper cut. I don’t want FS to prioritise this over literally any other single issue in the game. Reverting it at this point doesn’t save time or resources, it costs it.


Sure, here’s one.
Bounty hunter with repeater.

Every single special OHK breakpoint with the repeater pistol on specials is now pushed much further out. SV’s got bumped out of OHK range. Beastigors can no longer get staggered by the repeater pistol when tapped while running.

In general melee damage output loss, which leads to extra hits being required, due to the random overall damage from melee bacause of stagger + cleave.

This is all on cata.

And to alsozara:
You know what the patch notes also said? That the joining as the wrong class had been fixed. I trust what happens when I play, and that is a noticable damage loss.

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I’m sorry, but the nature of your response prevents me from verifying validity of your statements.

1. Every single special OHK breakpoint with the repeater pistol on specials is now pushed much further out.

After quickly checking the spreadsheet, I don’t see any breakpoints for specials that would be affected by the changes. If I just say that you’re wrong, then you will reply that I’m wrong, and we won’t have a productive discussion. So please, if it’s not too much trouble, just name ONE FULLY DESCRIBED breakpoint for specials in your build that stopped working. You already said you’re using a repeater and the difficulty is Cataclysm. The missing facts are: which special you’re trying to OHK, which attack do you use (single shot or burst), is it a headshot, is it a crit, what damage-affecting talents and properties do you have.

2. SV’s got bumped out of OHK range.

I can see that a Cata SV can still be killed by a single crit burst with Repeater, with a +20% crit damage and no “Power Vs.” properties and no Hunter.

3. Beastigors can no longer get staggered by the repeater pistol when tapped while running.

Lets focus on damage breakpoints for now, because there are no tools (that I know of) that can calculate stagger breakpoints.

  1. Distance for breakpoints matter.
    If I have to put my ranged weapon in the enemy’s nostrils to OHK, instead of across the map, the weapon is weaker.

  2. I did mention a breakpoint which stopped working. You can no longer OHK an SV in a single pellet. Of course I don’t mean burst fire. Who even uses that? Especially with hunter.
    Repeater: Armored, crit power, hunter
    Charm: crit power / whatever
    Talent: 20% damage on crit

Thing is, every special dies to one hit (at short ranges) on cata, apart from packmasters. Their OHK just varies from different ranges. As we all know, crit power is garbage, but you get shoehorned into it, with no damage stacking.

  1. Why? It’s a direct nerf as well.
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Interesting, I take it you actually tried to test it?
Because it has always worked and still does, if you stack everything and hs.

I replied before you edited your post to include your build. I didn’t think of adding Crit Power, hence why I thought one-shotting SV wasn’t possible.

I’ve tested your build on modded realm (exactly as you described), and it still oneshots Cata SV with a crit-headshot in single shot mode. It does exactly 87 damage, while SV has 86.5 HP. So my guess is, you’ve changed something in your build and forgot about it. Perhaps you deselected the Enhanced Power talent?

Thing is, your build was not affected by the change to power stacking. The only thing that was changed is that Power vs Armor and Power vs. Race used to stack multiplicatively, and now they stack additively. In your particular build, you don’t have both Power vs. Armored and Power vs. Skaven, so your Repeater damage against SV should be unchanged.


Then I stand corrected.

Out of curiousity, what is armor/crit power on wep and only skaven on charm on modded realm? 84.5 on live.

Used to be good on BH
It’s all dependent on what crit multiplier the weapon/attack you use has.

That’s why shade used to have vastly different dmg depending on what attack was used.

20% crit power usually grats you about 15% dmg (and yes that is directly of equal scaling to 10% power vs.)

Naturally CP is garbage on anyone that cannot reliably crit. Even a high crit chance and attack speed cannot make up for the lost dmg if you do not crit.

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