Ah the Typical move to a Personal Attack when out of Arguments. I See.
Wanna know a Fun Fact ?
My use of Capital Letters NEVER Comes up when I agree with someone. And also Never any Neutral Topic or at the Start of a Discussion.
It does however Come up Every Single Time when People Run out of Arguments and feel that they can no longer win a Debate. Thus instead moving towards Arguing about my Person rather than the Topic.
I Learned English Online. Never got any Proper Lessons on its Grammar or Spelling.
Not everyone is a Native English Speaker or Learned Oxford English at School
As for the remaining Pitiful Attempt at Personal Attacks.
I am Likely Old enough to be your Father.
But thats a different Story.
Now then ?
You got anything useful to Say on the Topic as well. Or can I just assume that from the Start all You had was a Personal Hatred for Fatshark which makes you Exceedingly Biased and Grumpy at the Idea that anyone would Trust them ?
My gosh everyone. Calm down before this gets locked.
Back on topicâŚ
I donât care if itâs a roadmap, or a press release, or a letter to the community, or a detailed timeline. I just want some COMMUNICATION period.
They donât have to tell me âwhenâ and they donât have to say âwhatâ it will be, Iâd just like to know that FS is actively working on XYZ and would like to look at ABC hopefully next.
Just a little validation is all the community really needs.
I have a hard time thinking that you are over 18 if this is your comeback. Grow up.
The logic in this thread is crazy. Fatshark has made mistakes and sometimes isnt great with communication, but that isnt grounds to attack someone for not being super jaded about it. Why are you guys even on the forums if you have zero faith in fatshark doing anything right?
I would be Perfectly fine having a Roadmap that basicly says.
Crafting System in December.
First Half 2023:
First Story Season with new Mission Chains and New Story Cutscenes.
Additional Weapons for Characters like the Large Hammer for the Ogryn and the Hotshot Lasgun for the Veteran.
5th Playable Character Class.
Possibly later in 2023:
Second Story Season with new Mission Chains etc.
Additional Seasonal Cosmetics that can be Unlocked by Completing Event Missions and Challenges.
Introduction of Stationary Gun Positions for Enemies like Heavy Bolter and Lascannon Positions that can Spawn in certain Positions of the Map and need to be Cleared.
In what way? Roadmaps in the past havenât been followed. They lied about the content of this game. We have one bit of communication âcrafting to be implemented by end of Decemberâ to go off. It actually seems pretty sane to be sceptical.
A road map would be nice, but its not gonna mean anything if the map is not followed.
Remember dedicated servers for VT2? Or maybe the versus mode? Well, the versus mode might not have been on their road map, but its still used as a selling point for VT2 on their site.
Basically, dont expect anything, because thats what Fatshark tend to deliver.
This would not be a good idea because fatshark is slow,
HOWEVER they could do a roadmap with items that are being worked on and their percentage of completeness, that would prevent them from further delays.
Even add secret stuff on it and its percentage just so people know more things are coming.
They also need to get the console version out at some point, and even though there are signs they were working on it concurrently, theyâd probably need a few months all hands on deck to push it out. I expect thereâll be a bit of a patch drought in January
Thats not even Logic anymore.
Its just Outright Hatred and Bias.
In all Likelihood they were very Emotionally Attached to Vermintide 2.
Thus whenever Fatshark missed a Deadline or had to Drop a Feature because it just wasnt Achievable.
They took it like it was an Personal Insult to them and their entire Family.
Likely many of these Goalposts not even being something Fatshark Promised. But rather something Fatshark mentioned they would like to do like Crossplay. And them assuming thats now a Promise.
Needless to say. Fatshark leaving Vermintide 2 in the Dust and moving on to Darktide.
Thus their Beloved Vermintide 2 now never receiving the stuff they Demanded.
They are effectively Directing all of their Hatred towards Darktide.
I noticed that in the Steam Forums already.
There seems to be a Large Number of People that basicly wanted this to be Vermintide 3.
And Fatshark instead Delivering Darktide is like Rubbing Salt into their Wounds.
Its like they are on a Personal Crusade against Fatshark.
Well Darktide is basically a âVermintide 3â⌠Itâs basically the same gameplay with minimal adjustments in a different setting. The quality of these âadaptationsâ is debatable.
Otherwise, I agree with others who have been active here for a while. A roadmap simply wouldnât add any value looking back at how they handled them. Sure it would be desirable and useful to have something like that, but only if a comprehensive implementation takes place, otherwise the only effect is the disappointment about missed objectives. FatSharkâs game development is unfortunately a story of half-baked features and missed opportunities⌠and this is not a personal crusade but the sobering realization of several years of experience. And just as you question the credibility of some forum members, Iâll give myself the benefit of the doubt that this will change with Darktide.
Therefore, let FatShark just do what they do and live with what they give you. Usually the games become quite acceptable with time, but it takes plenty of it, probably more than a roadmap could holdâŚ
I think that was @Exteriums point. The track record you speak of is based on roughly two weeks. I followed the development of VT2 from pre-release beta. Same patterns. I never played VT1, but everyone (as far as I remeber) has told me it was the same story there as well: rough launch and constant development, good product at the end of the games lifespan.
No one is questioning your right to have an opinion, but it does get weird if your counter-argument remains âI donât know better and I donât trust you for reasons, so what you say is bullcrapâ.
Edit: After reading up until post 71, it seems that youâre mainly here to antagonize and flame, but maybe Iâm wrong, so Iâll keep the response in the post.
With that said, I also agree with this quote:
âŚbut, if they worked on their communication when they failed to deliver things and communicated via their own channels instead of a 3rd party magazine, they would be met with more understanding and patience. It would be a huge bonus if they also learned from past mistakes, but I guess thatâs too much to askâŚ
Learning form past mistakes
The issue is not thay they communicate though, but that they overpromise. I do agree with you that they shouldnât release statements about maybes, or promise dedicated servers before exploring whether itâs possible or not, but if they have made a promise or commitment they should definitely communicate about it. They donât need to explain their design decisions, but if they promise e.g. crafting and canât deliver, then a statement should be out before the game releases. I do think itâs a good thing that theyâre reworking it if they feel like itâs a broken system, but communicate it pre-emptively AND communicate it on official channels. â Thatâs asking very little, in my opinion.
You literally said you have never played the title that made FS what it is today, never followed its development and broken promises along the way BUT SOMEHOW you are the prophet of what is going to come?
People in this topic are telling you that not only you are deluded but also have zero (0) clue of what happened in the past and why the vast majority of the veteran of 'tide games knows the value (or lack thereof) of FS promises.
Stop replying, you are not equipped for this discussion.
And for godâs sake, stop using capital letters randomly.
Would love a roadmap without any dates or time frames.
DD2 has one, with the info âMilestone 1â, âMilestone 2â. Just to see whatâs coming and whatâs prioritized.
You donât have to give ETAâs and people assuming ETAâs and then get mad about it, should just be ignored. Though I understand that customer backlash because of ETAâs changing is very off-putting. Game development, as most entertainment medium, is volatile and I find it surprising that even today people still get mad about delays or what not. I expect delays and iâll be happily surprised when it isnât. Easier to live that way, happier too.
->Imagine thinking being around as a company for 15 years is a long time.
->Imagine thinking that just short of the halfway point of that timeframe, roughly 5-7 years in (thatâs when the VT2 roadmap was shown I think) does not constitute for early career
For reference, thereâs companies in this world that have been around for hundreds of years.
Even in Gaming, there are companies still around operating from the early 90âs.
Having not even 5 titles under your belt and having operated for 5 years is definitely Early Career.
.
.
.
Since when is a Roadmap something set in stone?
The name itself already implies uncertainty. A Roadmap. A map for a route you desire to take.
Semantics aside: You can plan a roadmap, miss the targetted timeframes (if you even gave any) and still follow that roadmap. That does not mean necessarily you intentionally lied.
All it takes for any of the points on the roadmap to bring up unexpected hurdles and there it is. If you still follow the order of tasks you set out for yourself, you still follow that roadmap. You just arrive later.
And they also didnât lie about the content of this game. They said upfront the game would not have crafting on full release, because they couldnât get it done on time. But they also canât push back the release date any further, so they released it.
Not only did they not lie, they showed you almost the full thing in advance if you prepurchased and if you did it over Steam (which why would you not?!) you were able to refund it down to the last second on release. Hell you could have even played one more match thereafter, checked out the new content on release and still refunded thanks to Steamâs 2 hour policy. Plenty of people did, in fact. There are people on Steam with 150 hours of gametime logged on Darktide and not owning the game because they refunded.
So how is any of that lying? Just in terms of release and how it was handled, it was one of the more open releases in recent memory.
Compare to many of the recent AAA titles:
â No open beta
â No community manager saying âthis and that wonât be in on launchâ
â No review copies for journalists or influencers.
â No âtest as much as you likeâ policy
Instead: NDAs and embargos for any piece of info to be released (or not). Falsified information handed out by sales marketing teams with the same lifeless catchphrases over and over. Paid promotions over everything else. And if anyone still happens to find something out and post it, itâs handled as a âdangerous leakâ and the guy sued into oblivion.
There. That is what the competition to Fatshark does. Do you see the difference? That is outright maliciously lying. And none of these were done by Fatshark.
They released a buggy mess, yes, but they did not lie about itâs state nor tried to hide it.
They failed their earlier roadmaps in VT2, true. But itâs certainly because something came up that changed their development plans.
.
.
.
Read the 1.0.14 patchnotes. They put a little flavor text on top of them, but they also sometimes hold information.
They will make a press release of sorts about the next big content update this week.
.
.
.
Agreed. I donât get it, either. Everyone is so fixated on dates and frames. A rough roadmap doesnât need that, it just needs a general plan layed out and where the whole thing is headed.
And yeah, plans change all the time. I donât see why people get mad about it, either. I donât know a single guy or girl IRL that doesnât have changes of plans all the time.
Itâs not a malicious deception attempt.
Itâs people misjudging timeframes and priorities in advance of a task, then realizing âoh that actually takes longer than anticipatedâ or âoh something else with higher priority came unexpectedly up, Iâll have to shelf this for laterâ. Happens all the time, even to the best organized among us.
Instead of admitting you got it wrong youâve decided to double down and say that 15 years isnât a long time for a game dev studio, which is insane. âDonât worry guys they were young into their carreer only 11 years when they made that Versus trailer, a rookie error.â
Just doubling down on not knowing what you are talking about when the info is a few keystrokes and clicks away
Not here to engage in any debate. I just want to say that 15 years is a long period for a company. Thatâs about a decade of continued operation without folding. Starter ups donât even make it past the first year. Before anyone says Iâm pulling things out of my butt with that claim hereâs an article on it:
It is True that I never Played VT2.
But that doesnt mean I have no Idea what I am talking about Mate.
I have been Online for well over 20 Years. I have seen Games and Game Studious come and go.
And most of all. I have ALOT of Experience with Forum Communities.
From the Whitest of Knights that will Defend even a Turd on the Desk of the Game Developer. Down to the Worst Haters that will Complain even when a Game Studio is Bowing to Community Pressure and basicly giving the Community Exactly what it asked for.
And Not to Offend You.
But See. Here is the thing.
You Seem Exceedingly much like the latter of the Described.
Reading Your Posts its very Obvious that you are Absolutely Hating Fatshart. You are entirely holding a Grudge there. And that makes it rather Difficult to take your Judgement of them at Face Value.
Because Your absolutely not an Unbiased and Objective Party.
So my Point is not that I am Ignorant of what happened the last 5 Years and only know about the last 2 weeks. Thus dismissing your Statements.
Its that YOU Represent only One Side of this Story.
And frankly. If you Ask me. Ignorance would be if I just Believed what You said without actually giving the other side of the Story a Chance.
And the other Side of the Story Sounds really Different to what You Say.
See Mate.
Few Days ago. Fatshark in an Interview Explained why they delayed the Crafting System.
Told us what the New Crafting System will be like. And also said its gonna drop very very Soon.
So. At least for now I am actually rather Hopeful we will get it in December.
Whereass You guys Seem Hellbent on Claiming it will not come in December.
And your Denial of it coming in December. Has no Objective Reasoning whatsoever.
Its Based Purely on the âFatshark is Bad and always Breaks its Promisesâ Bias you Guys seem to have.
So once more.
I want a Roadmap.
I think a Roadmap is a good thing.
And wether Fatshark then actually manages to Fulfill that Roadmap is a Different Issue.
But let me Honest there.
If Fatshark Delayed a Feature in the Roadmap to be in the Next Quarter etc.
Then I would not care too much. Nor would I find the Roadmap any less useful.
Because even tough the Roadmap might not have been Accurate and might even be underdelivered.
It still gives me a rough Idea of what Fatshark is trying to Deliver.
And well. Even if they may Delay some things in it. As long as they Deliver Good things that make the Game Fun. I really dont care too much.
