#breakTheLocks !
#release4NewClasses !
wow there’s so much in there that could be copy-pasted for darktide. Not of the modders and content creators, but the rest of it.
Uh so Darktide Machine still broke. Will full toxic positivity magically make the Sharks work better?
Intel Core i7-6700K
Thanks, it does not bother me, I will have to upgrade anyway. 
Yeah, this is kinda daft. I just don’t bother if I have to do it outside the game.
the game deserves negative rating anyway.
Drivers will be fixed, the ass backwards progression system will not
On another note, why is the highest tier white psyker cosmetic set 1.5 mil compared to the other classes, which “only” pay 1 mil?
Also why do some classes get recolors on the second set of penance cosmetics and some don’t?
I’m guessing it depends on tier of armor AND “quality” of paint used.
In case of vet the desert one is top tier armor, but maybe paint used is not the highest tier?
(Whole set is purple)
On the other hand middle tier armor with black and white paint has highest rarity… (Set is gold).
For what it’s worth it was confusing to me too…
@FatsharkCatfish - Can you tell us if there’s a system behind price and quality of cosmetics in the store? Comlink gave us general idea but it’s a bit confusing at least to me.
I’m going to be honest this whole section made me speechless. I legitimately struggled to find a response for this. At the end of the day it comes down to this for me: progression should not be a “scratch card or booster pack.” Even if you never intend to play at that level, the in game “goal” is to work towards end game gear for Damnation games. Having your main source of progression be entirely roll dependent is frustrating and extremely inconsistent. Some people might get amazing weapons super fast, others might literally never see their preferred weapons. Again it’s not what’s necessary to play the game, but it is what the progression of the game is designed around. If you are really so desperate for some sort of gambling aspect certainly you could agree that cosmetics would be a better, albeit still poor, use for those mechanics?
You state that main progression should be something. Then you state that’s not what Darktide does. So perhaps that’s not the main progression in Darktide?
And I find it strange that loot boxes make you speechless. The concept has been around for ages, and is very common in other games, even without crafting. Team Fortress 2, lots of MMOs. Even Vermintide2 is based around weapon loot boxes. Heck, there are entire games that have weapon loot as one of the main game loops, like Borderlands or Back4Blood. And apparently that can work, or these games wouldn’t be so successful und liked.
And yes, rolling up duds is totally common in these games. (Including VT2.) That doesn’t make it a bad design. This 20 year old article on why there are bad magic cards sums it up nicely:
And it’s not even that the tide games use a pure loot system. It’s a hybrid with crafting. They also don’t lock you out of content based on the level of your looted gear, like a lot of games do. Heck, by comparison it’s very low effort to get a good weapon you want. You can try your luck at Brunts, or you wait for a good weapon Melks. You basically get 1 feat and 1 blessing of your choosing with the current system, with gives you a lot to experiment with. I think it’s definately untrue that you can’t try different builds with the current system.
But it is a significant problem to lots of people, and when they’ve been ignored for so long people will get angry. How long before you would get angry at a roomate for not cleaning their space? Could you say you wouldn’t be upset at being ignored for 6 months?
Thank you for your honesty, this was enlightening.
And I think you are dead wrong about this one. Darktide is not your room. It’s Fatshark’s. They are the creators, it’s their art and entertainment product. You are no co-producer, not even a contributor. They put in the artistic vision, the craftsmanship, the working hours. You consume.
The only thing you are entitled to is a usable product. Is Darktide usable? Yes, absolutely. (You could argue that it wasn’t at launch, when the GPU problems made it unplayable for some folks. These people didn’t receive a usable product.)
Darktide actually gives you AAA levels of graphics, sounds, gameplay. It easily offers 40 hours of entertainment (and imho quite a bit more). So this makes it objectively quite a good product. You definately wouldn’t claim that Darktide cheated you, would you? Then that’s it. You got all you paid for. You can wish for more, but you are not entitled to it. There is no basis for anger.
When you read a book or movie, you might like it or not. If you don’t like the ending or your favourite character doesn’t get enough screentime, will you get angry? Will you demand the creator to change it? Will you keep on bugging them about it until they listen to you? You don’t, do you? If anything, you give feedback in the form of “I liked …, I had wished for more of …, … really was annoying.” Perhaps some orientation for other consumers on wether this product might be something for them. Would you spam that? Hardly.
And now look around. Is that polite non-intrusive one-time feedback? Hardly, isn’t it. The discord posts get middle fingers and clowns, so do steam posts. This thread contains plain insults against the Devs. And yes, there’s hell of a difference between polite feedback and trying to coerce someone. So what is this? “I hurt you because I know what’s best for you?” or “I hurt you because I want something out of you?” Does it matter?
To get back to your roommate comparison: This forum and the discord is literally Fatsharks lobby. What I see is people walking in there, giving the hosts literally the middle finger and insulting them. If there would be an option to sh** on the carpet to ruin everybodys party, they probably would do that, too. Do you think that’s fine? Appropriate? Decent? Justified? Is that how people behave around you? Would you tolerate this behaviour from guests?
I am their customer. If they bait and switch me and i don’t like it that is their failing not mine. Darktide WAS a bait and switch. They failed to deliver on their own promises and inverted their own planned progression system. I purchased a product based on their promises, they didn’t deliver what they promised. If this was a housing contractor and I purchased granite countertops and got laminate I would demand they give me what I paid for. If they refused, after a long enough time passed of good faith negotiation on my part I would sue them for damages. Just because my countertop works fine doesn’t mean I got what I paid for.
I’m not interested in suing fatshark. But your understanding of the business relationship here is dead wrong.
Will the commissary cosmetics get updated as much as the micro transaction store?
I do consume. HOWEVER, if I pay the artist for promise of a statue with 1 head, they deliver 2 heads and I don’t like it I have an option of a refund.
Its called “Consumer protection” and “False advertising” and they are laws for this in quite a lot of countries around the globe. Unfortunate thing is, that due to the quite quick technical advancements, these laws barely, very gently or don’t cover software and games at all.
Thats why game devs take advantage of this. Only studio that got any proper heat for it was Hello Games with No Mans Sky. They promised a lot of stuff before release that was not delivered and people did not let it slide. But somehow with fatshark on their 3rd game doing the same “promises” its ok and tolerated and if we don’t like it we’re just whiny kids and we should leave.
Similar, like we got promised solo/single player, story (this game has no story), new class every 3 months or we are shown cosmetics on the promotional materials that are not in the game. Such as:
This black armor
Or this Ogryns armor or Veterans helmet with face mask
And yes there is helmet for veteran that looks similar but it does not have the decal on the front and the color or the face mask does not match.
EDIT: And funny thing is you know those items are in game, because they are rendered on the models in character creation, but somehow those items are not shown anywhere in the cosmetics section of that given character…
Honestly with FS’ track record so far with DT I had pretty low expectations of this major patch drop planned for May. It barely made May and I was overwhelmingly underwhelmed. No wonder they haven’t said much before or after. The new map was nice, for about 2 hours. Everything else, crashes notwithstanding, has been pretty MEH. I even hear YouTubers talking about moving on because they cant make any money with the dwindling DT community. There were a few good things about this game, but it has been mismanaged time and time again into the ground. No one should believe any further hype from this company.
Memorialized, added your gene-seed.
@Reginald You generally seem to write well thought out and argued posts, so I’m a bit surprised about this one.
You probably wouldn’t even qualify as a customer of Fatshark, just like buying a book by George R.R. Martin doesn’t constitute a business relationship with him. You bought an entertainment product from Steam. Off the shelf. You didn’t comission anything from Fatshark, you have no contract with them, nada.
Did you receive the product, and does the product fit the description? Yes. It’ a 40k themed 4-player coop horde slaying game. The game is everything it says on the steam store page. And it’s actually really good at that. So you got what you are entitled to. There’s no bait-and-switch (not even the definition fits). You didn’t get cheated. You haven’t even been sold a bad product.
Heck, it’s 2023, there’s Youtube reviews of everything. You can’t even claim that you didn’t know what you were buying, can’t you?
I can get why you disappointed. Obviously you have been expecting more free updates than Fatshark is delivering. And perhaps you based your purchase on that. But being disappointed with an entertainment product doesn’t constitute a breach of contract. (Again, which contract?)
Same as George R.R. Martin not publishing the sixth novel of “A Song of Ice and Fire” might suck for you as a reader, and in retrospect might have kept you from buying the other five. But you are not entitled to it, George R.R. Martin is neither in breach of contract, nor did he cheat you, nor could you sue him. Same goes for TV series that got canceled or movies at the cinema you didn’t enjoy.
And @hrax13 apparently thinking they bought a solo-player game takes it to the next level. Steam doesn’t list single-player as an option, the entire product description is about 4-player-coop. Very clear.
All there is, is an early Community Update #1, where Fatshark says they plan to add solo-player mode and are already working on it. That’s it. So I get why there’s some expectation for it. But that doesn’t equal being entitled to it.
Quite a few people get that wrong. Whenever Fatshark says what they are planning to do, some folks think that they are now entitled to that, that it’s their right, that everything else is cheating or theft or a damage or whatever. And that it’s ok to being a nagging, bullying annoyance about it.
Which, imho, led to Fatshark no longer communication any plans to the broader community. (They appear to be quite open with modders.) Because everytime they say what they have lined up, it will create the next thing some people think they are entitled to, and that will be thrown back at them ad infinitum. So thanks for nothing.
So in your opinion no one in the whole world should have been upset about, say, the state of No Man’s Sky on launch?
No company should ever be held accountable for anything they say will be included in any product, certainly not in any entertainment product, because expecting them to do as they say they will do is acting entitled?
Get the hell out of here.
Out of everything I wrote you choose solo mode. LOL. And not only apparently you cannot read your brain lacks the cognitive function to understand written word.
They promised solo mode I never said I thought I bought a solo mode game.
But yes, lets strawman around solo mode, which is an option IN EVERY COOP GAME to start a private/public lobby solo (with or without bots), completely ignoring the class promises, misleading promotional materials, story mode, scoreboard, crafting.
EDIT: Most of the links above from steam or darktide official web are articles published pre-release. Customer bought the game based on those promises and they were not in the game on release. Promising features that are still not delivered yet or will never be delivered, constitutes a “false advertising”. As a No Mans Sky case showed us, you gotta watch your mouth with promises pre-release. And if you don’t you better deliver.
And lets not forget about the “open apology letter” where the big man Martin was promising to delay seasonal content and MTX store content until they deliver fully functional crafting (has not happened), more rewarding progression loop (has not happened) and work on game stability and performance optimalizations (recend Shader fook up, AMD crash fook up and current stability dropping 50-60 frames on 3080Ti proves him otherwise)
Same as George R.R. Martin not publishing the sixth novel of “A Song of Ice and Fire” might suck for you as a reader, and in retrospect might have kept you from buying the other five. But you are not entitled to it, George R.R. Martin is neither in breach of contract, nor did he cheat you, nor could you sue him. Same goes for TV series that got canceled or movies at the cinema you didn’t enjoy.
Guess what, I can go the the restaurant, eat the whole meal I ordered and still return it and get full refund if I find a piece of glass in the last bite.
What an entitlement…
And me not liking something is not as me not liking something I was promised, but never received.
But being disappointed with an entertainment product doesn’t constitute a breach of contract. (Again, which contract?)
Being promised A, but delivered B is a breach of contract. And guess what, that contract happens automatically the moment I purchase an item. Its called “Consumer contract” and again its part of the law and consumer protection.
What is a consumer contract?
A consumer contract is a legally binding agreement between you and the consumer concerning the sale of goods or digital content, or the supply of services (with or without goods).
Contracts can be made:
- verbally
- in writing
- by your and the consumer’s conduct (‘silent contracts’). An example of a silent contract is when a customer picks up goods and pays for them using a self-service checkout in a supermarket. No words are spoken, but it is a contract all the same
Steam is the middle man. Fatshark is responsible for the product they sell on Steam.
If Deisu’s contractor is using a third part to handle their invoices, you won’t complain to the third party about the contractor doing a bad job. Steam isn’t producing or developing the game, they only help Fatshark reach customers and handle transactions.
I’ve expressed this previously on the forum, but I was on the brink of refunding the game by the end of the pre-release beta. I decided to trust what Fatshark wrote in their crafting blog at the end of November and decided against refunding, based on the words and vision they put out. I stopped playing the game entirely early January, opened it up for half an hour or so when crafting was released and was turned off to the extent that I haven’t launched it since.
@CommanderJ Nice strawman and hyperbole there.
So were you unhappy about the state of Darktide at launch? If so, why did you buy it? Honestly, Fatshark was transparent about the state of the game. There was an open beta with the option to refund. I don’t see how that compares to Open Sky, really. (But I also think it’s somewhat of a personal risk to put your money blindly in preorders of unfinished products. Also I don’t care about Open Sky, and don’t think that case matters except for the people who pledged.)
Fatshark even were very transparent with what caused the delayed launch (trying to create a good interaction between Melee and Shooting). Personally, I’m really glad they did, because that’s what makes Darktide outstanding. So I don’t regret getting it. (Still hoping for more maps, and hopefully game modes… But that’s something this update actually addresses, so yay. 
)
@freqlectic So you took a personal risk and now regret it. I get your disappointment, even though my personal view is quite different. But honestly, why do you still linger? The outlined crafting system has been implemented. You still don’t like it. Not your taste, you haven’t played in months. So an entertainment product didn’t live up to your expectations. Happens. What’s your point?
Frankly, it feels odd having this discussion with, what feels like, mostly people who don’t even play the game. Not even because of disapointment with the gameplay itself, but because of the carrot they expected.
Because they promised it would be one way and then it went another.
“Hey want to buy some milk?”
“Sure”
“Ok here’s some orange juice”
“This isn’t what I wanted, give me milk or my money back”
“Too bad no refunds you drink orange juice or nothing now”.