QoL is a big point for me. Bad QoL has killed better games. Forcing behavior through negative experiences is anti-QoL.
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Yeah, well even for QoL it would be meh. The best QoL change would be to just make perk reroll into perk select.
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Yeah. I can’t believe they still haven’t updated that, and somehow made it worse to boot UX-wise.
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Looks about the right amount for the current system since you seem to have mostly focused on two characters.
And again, nothing stops you from collecting new weapons, like honestly, how would the removal of locks affect you negatively?
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Not @Ralendil, but it still is some kind of progress and offers some intention to play. Just yesterday i had a pretty good DS on my 2nd Psyker with a 377 modscore and 2 T4 blessings at melk. But i didn´t had enough currency to buy it, so i played and played till i got my weeklies done.
Besides that “work” the game already lacks behind in replay-ability to me, because it´s not really challenging at all and i often close the game after 1-2 runs.
Not saying the current situations shouldn´t be fixed. I would still vote for “get ride of crafting and stats” in general and let us choose our blessings since it´s a pointless time-consuming implementation in its current state as it has been in V2. But this could be boring and stale pretty fast for a lot of players since the game has not enough content to outweigh missing side-activities.
Or the other way would be a decent endgame with some real progress where we can upgrade blessings through weapons with similar ones like “tier 1 + tier 2 = tier 3” or that we´re able to overcraft a weapon with better modifier-stats on that with bad stats but crazy blessings etc…
The 2nd option would probably the better choice to give players something to do, while increasing the odds effectively.
Holy cow, how many hours did that take?? xD
I’ve got around 50 on my psyker and only have 5 garbage illisis, the only one with perks and blessings I’m even okay with has the worst stats, and it’s still the best one I’ve got.
Compared to this, warframes grind felt almost refreshing, at least there you constantly have tangible evidence that you are reaching your goals, DTs crafting just feels like flushing money down the drain to me.
Granted force swords are probably one of the most frustrating weapons to craft in this game, since getting one with deflector is pretty much mandatory if you want to survive getting close enough to your enemies to hit them with it as psyker.
That and a large pool of blessings that really don’t benefit the playstyle outside of unique combinations with each other (like crit chance on dodge + crit weakspot damage on dodge, either one doesn’t work well without the other on force swords…but then you don’t have deflector, eek)
Axes only have a small blessing pool. Do the same for force swords with 12.
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Psyker and Ogryn are not my prefered classes.
But, I wanted to play them cause like that I know better my teamates. So, I don’t really try to get excellent weapons. But I’ve really good weapon that I actually prefer (kickback, ripper V, cleaver, shovel and for psyker obscurus, trauma staff, surge staff, void staff)
I don’t say that it would affect negatively to remove locks… I say that when someone says it is impossible to get good weapons and to test different configurations, this is an exaggeration…and a big one.
I say that removing locks would make pointless crafting new weapons. Why would I use a 368 weapon when I have a 380 with perfect modifiers?
Also, I doubt they will remove locks… as I said numerous times.
I repeat the problem is not that. The problem is casual players. What I did requires lot of time. This is not impossible and if you play regularly you can do it also… at least for the weapons you really want.
The problem is the player retention. If someone that plays from time to time get bad weapons and cannot get something good without spending lot of time, the game is not attracting for him. Here is the problem.
That’s why I proposed this.
We need that these players can craft easily weapons. The repetition would make easier to get a weapon you want. For a casual player, this would mean a lot.
For me… well sooner or later I always get what I want… I actually search for an heavy sword VII with right blessing. Several have been sold cause they were bad. Brunt’s armoury, I refuse to use it. You get more garbage than things you can craft. So I have to wait that the shop propose me something good. That’s why they need to tweak Brunt’s Armoury…
Edit: I ve removed the pictures of my weapons… I had uploaded them to show you that it is possible to get anything you want.
I believe most of our arguments are that by removing weapon locks you also cut down on the time required to get a loadout online substantially as you no longer run into the scenario where you brick your 380 weapon with a garbage blessing. I agree with you that the time investment is the core issue here, I’ve got multiple sets for the four classes and it took an ungodly amount of time to do so, far more then I consider reasonably attainable by the average player.
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You still need to deal with the base stat RNG and the stat distribution RNG, so you either get it through the shop, brunts or as an emperors gift, that still requires you to grind for it, but i find this to be acceptable grind.
And removing locks would let casual players be able to customize and make their weapons better with less grind, which going by your logic would make them stick around for a longer time as the game would be more attractive to them, right?
Also, the new players are the ones who has it the worst when it comes to the RNG, they dont have big built up chunks of resources and a bunch of high stat base weapons they can smash into the RNG wall until they at least get close to what they want.
The thing about this is that its just artificially extending the grind, if you want players to continue playing the game then there are far better ways to do this than forcing near directionless grind upon them. The new penances and the cosmetics tied to them is a good example of this.
It also pisses off players when they have to deal with the type of RNG that can basically brick a weapon and turn their effort into a waste of time and resources.
Yes, it is possible to acquire anything if you throw enough time, resources and weapons at it, but not everyone has the time or the willingness to do this, and the current time investment leans towards being excessive unless the RNG gods smile upon you.
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The new penances are a super bad example of this. Super easy stuff that you will get in like 2-10 games or so. I haven’t read 1 believable example of what an endgame could be instead of gear progression.
BTW, I would be fine with a deterministic system that would actually have some long-term progression. It’s just I’m really against unlocking everything equipment-wise after 100-300 hours or so. All the times I quit VT2 were exactly because there was nothing more to look forward to.
As you said:
That is why I feel like the current system is totally workable (although it could be improved).
The system could be changed so that mid-level stuff is easier to get for casuals without removing the long end of the progression. It doesn’t need to be something like a lock breaking.
This is what pretty much, to me, all the arguments in support for any part of the crafting and itemisation systems in Darktide sound like:
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Make other people suffer through what they themselves did to get the items (the grind for resources, smacking themselves against the RNG wall for HUNDREDS of hours on end) and not letting latecomers or those that have had a break get stuff any easier otherwise they may “invalidate” the “effort” that was spent to get what they have.
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They got lucky themselves and show a hilarious, or worrying, lack of empathy, self awareness or understanding on how RNG is or how other people’s experience might be different.
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There is something in their psyche that only allows them to enjoy something if there’s a massive RNG wall, which is then mislabelled as “progress” or “work”.
The system is frustrating, deliberately stretched in the worse ways possible, and even any defenders can’t really say with a straight face that they actually like the system, only that the system would rather force people to do something that could have been more positively encouraged were it not for the overly restrictive lack of player agency. I hate this crafting system with a passion and the only reason the game is buoying itself in player count is the core gameplay is pretty good.
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Getting into name-calling and strawmaning territory again? I’m not surprised…
Or their ok treating it like a second job and spending 40 hours a week on the game and expect that the crafting time and effort experience should be balanced/designed around them.
Even IF we were ok with the time it took to get max gear I think everyone can at least agree the current methods of time wasting in pursuing and selling and rolling is a bad implementation.
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Actually not a single name call in that message. Just what the behaviour indicates. Difference in saying “your behaviours exhibits X” vs “you are X”. Important distinction.
Don’t worry, I can read between the lines.
i think removal of siloed inventory and resources is far more important than removing the locks.
removsl of locks (unless having very big price, hence rarity) will just mean we all gonna be running with top notch weapons. nothing wrong with that, unless everything gets massive nerf or new difficulty gets added to compensate for every player having BIS weapon. i preder t6 to be added, i dont want another nerf thread
removal of siloed resources on the other hand will enable players who are sick of starting new class from 0 quite a lot of content to play with.
rly removal of siloses is like upgrading shareware quake 1 to full version (for younger audience, shareware had 25% of game content available).
each new class has different gamestyle so it will take long time before one can master it (unless person is VT2 veteran, then there is no hope ;p)
//edit
in games like diablo2+, finding a great bow on sorceress was usually reason to start new character, an amazon to play with new bow. i feel it would be the same here if vet would get cool staff as emperors gift
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They are a lot better than what we currently have, gives you something to work on with a little reward at the end. Its better than directionless grind and layers upon layers of RNG thats for sure.
I just dont get this, you want less choice in how you play the game? We already have the mission selection menu to fill all of those needs if thats what you really crave.
You want to deal with this grind because it somehow makes you feel like you are doing something, you dont want the choice to play on your own terms as much as possible?
Long term progression should have more direction than “Grind these resources so you can gamble them away and maybe get something thats within the ballpark of what you wanted”
Also, as i have mentioned multiple times, its the lack of options for build experimentation without the need for more excessive grind and gambling that is my main issue with the locks, as well as how you are basically at the mercy of balance changes without having the tools to deal with buffs or nerfs without having to grind and gamble even more.
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See, the thing about that is that most long time player are already running around with top notch weapons, some them might lack 5% here and there, maybe that 20% maniac damage gets bumped up to 25%, or that tier 3 blessing gets bumped up to a tier 4 if the locks were removed.
But its not like that 5% or that extra tier on a blessing is suddenly going to make such a huge impact that its going to throw the entire balance into a black hole, especially since the people who play on the highest difficulties are most likely already using weapons that are near perfect.
The removal of locks would however allow for more build flexibility and experimentation while letting the players deal with nerfs and buffs a lot easier, and it will also make testing new blessings and weapons less tedious whenever they get introduced to the game.
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Look, I’m tired of arguing about this.
Yes, I like to play not just for the sake of playing, a lot of people including casuals are like this. I like rewards to look forward to.
No, it doesn’t have to be an RNG system.
No, I’m not bothered by RNG systems.
Removing the lock is just a bandaid fix that the community wants, I don’t think it’s a good idea (read why I think that in one of my previous posts).
The current system isn’t close to as brutal and unforgiving as players make it out to be, but it doesn’t have safety rails for the worst of luck.
“Player Choice” and “Playing on your own terms” sound great, ask for a modded realm where you can do whatever you want, but for me, it doesn’t work. I don’t really want to go into an argument about this, but honestly guiding players, rewarding them, etc. is really important in game development.
This is a fine take. Make it deterministic and make it long enough so that new releases can keep up. I’m fine with you or others not liking the system. We can agree to disagree. I don’t even think it’s that good for the kind of system it is, it’s just passable, and it can be worked with and improved.
On an absolutely side note, and just so we can put this whole thing back in the box.
FS’s now months-long silence about the topic makes me think that they are actually trying to work out something new. I hope they do keep some kind of progression in gear acquisition because I do not trust them to make a good enough alternate end-game progression, but hopefully, it will alleviate problems for people who feel like they are gambling.
I also very much hope that finally, we will get a new class and a few more maps. The weapons, and mods we got were fine for a while, but the game is getting a bit repetitive.
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