Classes Then vs. Now & Player Power

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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So I’ve started my foray into Patch #13 by trying to recreate builds from Pre-Patch #13 and only using skills that previously existed (or close equivalents). I’m doing this to get a feel for how much more powerful characters are feeling, and I have a few observations to share.

I want to start with the Psyker, since that’s been my “main” if I had to pick one.

Here’s the deal.

#1 - With the new Talent system, you can not only rebuild a close approximation to pre-patch builds, you can basically take 80+% of the entire old feat system at the same time.

Look at this build here

And then this google sheet

Everything in GREEN can be taken in the new skill tree. 17 out of 23 core feats/abilities can be taken simultaneously. Previously, only 11 out of 23 could be taken.

So you can see how this translates into an enormous increase in capacity over the prior class. And it doesn’t even take into account new possible synergies.

#2 is that MANY weapons have been rebalanced and now find new synergistic possibilties with the increase in ability. Voidstrike staff, thank god, is buffed. But not only was it made much better on its own, it’s capacity is made even greater due to the many feats that can leverage using the staff (and others). This is good, this is what we want from a system. But when 1 + 1 = 3 you have a lot of potential for very powerful builds (relative to pre-patch).

#3 In addition to #1 and #2 above, the talent system also provides a number of new passives and modifiers buffs along the way, making you even stronger.

Having said all of this - I’m 100% in favor of the new system. You get a ton of toys to tinker with and it’s FUN having a lot of abilities to test and combine in different ways. So I’m not advocating any changes to the new talent system

But having played a number of games now I’m rather blown away by how EASY the game has become. I really think the HP and stats of enemies needs to scale up more, especially on Damnation difficulty. I know there are bugs and glitches with the spawn director, but even when you have a big pack of enemies, mixed hordes, specials, etc. everything just seems to crumble in front of a competent team.

I’m not up to speed on the maths and breakpoints, but it feels like enemies on damnation need to be at least +50% tougher HP wise across the board.

TLDR: Love the new talent system and weapon rebalancing. It’s really great! But the game is too easy and enemies just need to have more HP to recapture the “old” difficulty level.

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Some people are complaining about the game being too easy now.
Meanwhile, my wipe rate in pubs has gone up probably more than 4x, since the update (not because i am dead weight).

I would really like to see actual win rate statistics from fatshark.

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Agreed, although just boosting enemies upfront won’t do it justice.

I think the new Horde spawning patterns are borked, not properly recognized.
I made a thread in the bug section and it immediately got the “acknowledged” mark, not the “not-a-bug” mark.

So clearly they’re aware of it.
We have no idea how brutal the waves of enemies are. The patch notes suggested they’re less mashed potatoes and more strategically coming in, such as all shooters from two sides and melee enemies from the other sides and such.

If that worked, the game would get some of it’s difficulty back.
As it stands, half the time you run through deserted hallways.
Papa Nurgle got hungry and ate his soldiers.

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Means nothing.
Months ago, there was at least one bug report regarding “counterfire does not mark scab stalkers”, that was marked as “acknowledged”.

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Sorry if I come off as trolling but. . . I’m being perfectly serious here. Play a few games with the other two, and then play vet. Ideally a vet commando build or a vet sharpshooter build. Then revisit this statement, and see if it still holds up.

I’ve just written this elsewhere, but when things get bad enough games can often feel like you’re the only one playing a squad based PVE game, while other non-vet players are on a SP FPS. This is on both ends of the spectrum mind you. On one end the games’ everyman for himself but everyone but the vet(s) barely coasts by while being hit with a never ending tide of crap and specials. These usually end as a wipe because whoever is the source of CC gets dropped. Other games, nothing happens, ez mode, because the zealot(s)/ogryn(s) 24m+ ahead draw and murder everything. That or the Psyker(s) melt everything before your rounds go downrange.

Especially so with methhead zealots and ogryns. They’ve always been there, but they were rare before, like an instance of a single guy once or twice a week rare. Now I’ve run into one or multiple in a single game at least, every day since the update. Like racking up numbers in the range 700k+ DMG in a single category every game, consistently. Did 800k~ as executioner vet at one point. This was with crit helbore, or was it no respite helbore, can’t recall which. Although that was because I was the only one with a DPS carry build. I’ve counted 2 psykers and 1 zealot I’ve seen hit up to 1mil. This will prob become more common as more people figure out the meta if the nerf hammer doesn’t come down soon.

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The game was already easy when teams were working together, and I agree with OP - everyone’s had a power up and that’s fine, but all the game can do to compensate is throw waves of disablers at you, which gets old fast. I think the basic enemies could stand to be buffed, at least on damnation. Not necessarily extra health, but definitely faster reaction times/melee attack speed and more damage. Playing Ogryn I feel practically invincible unless something goes terribly wrong.

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I want to agree with this post more than once. These are my exact thoughts, well stated.

I’ve played at least 10 rounds of highint shock since the update, and it seems to have more enemies now than pre-patch, so presumably the spawn rate bug is limited to non-modifier matches? (I’m just guessing there). But that said, even taking into account the increased number of baddies, everything just dies so quickly. This definitely seems like the right time and place for a buff to enemy HP.

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Game was easy before, IF you took the meta stuff.
If you DIDNT take the meta stuff, like taking zealot with eviscerator and being outmeleed by vets PS with 0 feats for melee.
Then you threw evis into trashpile, took BMaxe/HeavySword and deleted everything anyway.

ONLY thing that changed now, is that stupid OP builds run through the game even easier BUT more build/weapons can achieve the power fnatasy status.

Honestly if this game didnt have that idiotic item progression system it would be 10x better

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Win rate is gonna be lower for some because the update brought in 10k+ players back. A lot of these players are lower on the skill spectrum, understandably. Unless you always play with friends, you’re going to be paired up with these less experienced/skilled players.

The game is objectively easier now. Most classes have strong coverage against every enemy type in a single build and spawn rates are usually easier. There seems to be a few director bugs where things get absolutely nuts like virtually every enemy being a shotgunner, but this is rare and obviously a bug. It’s also really cool once you know it’s a thing. Having it happen when you don’t know it’s a thing is not always the nicest surprise.

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