There is no PVP feature.
The derank means someone who repeatedly drags down a team to failure won’t rise above where they are able to be effective or be effectively carried.
In an ideal high Havoc situation, 100% of all 4 players would be required for success.
It is reasonable to ask for a system, and I think with the changes we’ve seen to Havoc we’ve got one now, where a rando can reasonably be assumed to be capable of the possibly-hour-long sweatfest that they are asking to join you on.
They make it harder. So now I need at least 8 games per season to get from 30-40.
For a couple of months.
Ok, so now it’s not about
But just “better than one offs”. I definetly agree with that.
Regardless I don’t see any of those as a reliable skill indicator whatsoever. In part of the reasons you mentioned: Off-Days/Rusty or maybe someone just tries a new build and is not familiar with the weapon combos or w/e.
But that’s fair enough, afaik Fatshark never stated that the ranks should be treated as such.
Their purpose is to provide “stakes and tension of climbing the ranks in Havoc”.
And for me, they don’t do that.
No, it’s still about that. I think it’s a pretty good and trustworthy indication of skill. Most people aren’t going to get carried up to 40.
After a few days of a new season, the true 40s should be playing with each other and everyone else will be spread out below and working their way up.
i agree that upranking takes longer, so more consistent good play is needed.
however, a big part of the difficulty is getting into a decent team first. so many would like to play havoc for the challenge, but have to hang around in the party finder in their limited free time to find a team that scatters after the first loss because everyone is concerned with their rank instead of having fun. that’s exactly this tedious and annoying “job interview” part that premades don’t have because the team is already there, and i don’t think that havoc will be that interesting to many people as long as earning someone’s favor in the party finder is the only way to even start a game.
I haven’t used the PF to get into high Havocs, so being rejected hasn’t been an issue for me yet. All my teams fill up in less than a minute. I can’t speak to the experience higher up the chain.
But there are ways to mitigate the “job interview” feel if you don’t like that: get in a premade or host your own parties.
The issue is we have no idea that such is the actual derank intention, FS will only state they want “tension” and deranking does that in a broad array of different manners. More fundamentally, if carrying someone is possible, which still appears to be the case, then its function (if the intention is to keep people from rising too high) is fundamentally pre-defeated.
Particularly coupled with the fact that literally nothing else in the game is designed to be particularly gate-keepey in this manner, and usually goes out of its way not to be so, it’s hard to see that as the driving intent behind de-ranking.
Ah yes, the “grind 18 hours a day for 3 months and then quit the game forever” Honor system and “All group content for max level players must require 40 people” of early WoW built by EQ megasweats 
Oh , dispite the PVE nature of Darktide, I assure you that Havoc features are inspired by pure PVP existing systems, I garantee, some card games use it very explicitely( card games where failures are on your own only because you’re alone in your team, look at Hearsthone, it’s literaly the same idea ) . Therefore, I would say deranks don’t always happen because of a single player, but because of the whole team, which disbands anyways after 1 try (very often), forbidding your party to adapt as a consequence. And THAT precise behaviour, purely anti-coop seems to be the result of the fear of deranking. It does its perfect opposite’s initial purpose in most cases, except for 40 level players
I don’t see the issue. If it does the thing, it does the thing. I think it’s pretty clearly the intent, but even if not it does do that.
If high Havoc is as challenging as some folks desire it to be, it will not be able to beaten without 4 players working at 100%. Of course, we walk among godgamers so someone will probably always be able to carry even the saddest cases.
But it’s not a common thing. Most people can’t carry the worst players up to 40. The fact that it’s not a perfect system doesn’t mean it’s a failed one.
people said a lot of things regarding havoc being similar to weaves, but they aren’t the same
for example weaves did not have any rank decay, yet had some sort of global scoreboard (it was pointless anyway)
these changes are ok, but i think rank decay should be just removed entirely
would be cool also having the ability to choose the level of havoc
you can select freely without needing to demote, cause it’s just janky that.
weaves levels once completed them you could host them at any time
I agree with this. Once you’ve unlocked a rank, I think you should be able to choose to start your own lobby at that level without demotion being a factor. Surely some folks would want to practice duo’ing lower ranks without the hassle of derank.
I think the change that allows you to join others’ lower lobbies without derank is a decent half-fix with a unique upside of encouraging higher-level players to join others’ lobbies.
As far as we know, a season only lasts a couple of months.
In case I don’t undestand you:
I was arguing against 1. Since that was my interpretation of the first post of yours I quoted.
Yeah, that was what I was thinking.
Ah, my apologies.
I think 1 is indeed true and will continue to be the case as we progress through seasons. It may not be a perfect measure, but I think it’s much more reliable than anything else in the game.
Gotcha.
I also think it’s more reliable than anything else but I dont think it’s a good one still.
Exactly like that! 
Agreed.
Not entirely connected, but not completely unrelated: I’ve been running Mortis Trials a lot lately to complete the 50-games. penance (last one left), and while I don’t want to name and shame, folks dying repeatedly to single ragers before wave 8 is commonplace.
This is with me killing everything with the broken Box of Boom indulgences on my Ogryn alt, and people continue to die.
PS: this is not a new player dying, but people with A.S.S titles and hundreds of levels.
Agreed 
Indeed. I do not know why this is the case at all. If I’m a 30 that wants to play a 25 I should just be able to select that. I understand not being able to select higher levels, but lower levels? Why not?
I can only assume this is a weird technical band-aid to cover up a flaw in Havoc’s backend.
I think it’s probably edging into whatever constraint is keeping us from getting to choose to spin up any mission at any time. I suspect that’s due to how servers are provisioned/managed/whatever. I’m pretty sure I remember a bit from the tech talk they did on AWS where they talked about a single instance running more than one match.
To be fair to the later. At least once you did complete a raid and managed to get some loot you could always use said loot. Even if you took a 3 month break. Havoc 1.0 (aka Honor system) and Arena - well I suppose you could keep it in your bank as something to look at. Wear it though - nope.
Amazing how no matter how many people that go through these things, complaining every time it works against them, then end up becoming a developer and repeating the exact same mistakes. Its almost like they all have that disease that makes people incapable of changing their habits in response to reality.
