Huh. I wonder if this isn’t all just the result of one of the devs over-thinking it and reasoning that if they call it carapace and show it giving full-body coverage, people will get upset that it does not convey carapace-levels of protection (despite the fact that we already have no difference in defense between a worn-out undershirt and full-torso flak armor). Doubtless some players absolutely would. So they make the models leave spots uncovered to justify them conveying no extra benefit.
As we see (and as we saw in VT2), I’m pretty sure most folks at least wouldn’t care that their stats don’t match the cosmetics relative to one another. They just want to look cool.
That’s my first guess anyway. The second is that they may be worried about clipping around the waist during action. I have noticed many players are unduly distressed by even the most occasional clipping and the devs do seem to respond to that.
It’s one of these: An older style now typically called a “bib shirt” but I’ve also seen “popover tunic” some places as well. They show up quite a bit in the Imperium as well as the almost Star Trek style where they button up one side of the chest rather than the middle.
Lieutenant Mira of the 203rd Cadian Shock Troops (Space Marine).
Sergeant-Major Merrick of the 85th Vendoland (DoW 2) had a very similar shirt but I can’t find any zoomed in shots.
That nothing ‘fits the bill’ because only helmets have had the description ‘carapace’ so far. All others to me falling under light armor. All other cosmetics being ‘flak armor’ so far.
So its kinda hard to do Karskin cosmetics justice when you literally took a flak set, colored it in Cadian shock camo and said ‘maybe he looted it from a dead guy who knows he’s not even Karskin’ in the description. To me, proper carapace cosmetics have not even been attempted yet. Proof is in the schema. I knew that we’re gonna wait so long for them I didn’t even bother poaching the Karskin pants that are the only 85% proper element currently.
And not gonna be (also i don’t get what set do you expect to see to call it carapace). There is some strange thing they don’t copypaste minis look but trying to invent a wheel, ok ok rejects can’t have it (which is dumb argument cause inquisituion can get anything for heroes of atoma). Basic cadian helmet has no visor, zealot crusader set has no helmet, krieg set…However it’s somehow ok that COD has Team Kill kasrkin set, lol.
This set is an old kasrkin (made of carapace) design armor, as i posted official art from the codex above
None of that is relevant to my point, which is that “flak” and “carapace” designate different armour materials in the Imperium, not different levels of coverage.
I’m calling it Kasrkin armour because it’s clearly modeled after Kasrkin armour from the tabletop game. I don’t care what FS wants to call it; “Kasrkin armour” is the most clear and direct way of describing it.
Not necessarily. The design of the torsot is congruent with the lighter-weight “Flanking Trooper” armour used by Kasrkin on certain missions (I don’t know where the helmet came from, but the legs are just normal Kasrkin gear).
The more heavily-armoured character careers in VT2 like Foot Knight Kruber have more hit-points, though, unless I’m mistaken.
Yeah, as dumb as some (a lot?) of the stuff FS does is, they’re pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don’t in that particular area.
I know; I’ve never seen a Guardsman wearing a tunic like that before, though. Double-breasted tunics, of course, but not bib-fronted ones.
The tunic that Mira is wearing appears to be based off of the Czarist/Soviet Gymnastorka, which is a pullover top with usually a Mandarin collar and a three-button neck.
Sometimes the artists/sculptors add a flap in the Cadian tunic’s skirt to indicated that it opens up all the way in the front, sometimes they don’t; sometimes it’s single-breasted and sometimes double-breasted, but in any case, it’s never been shown as a bib-front to the best of my recollection, so having one in-game for the “Relic of Cadia” armour just looks weird.
You’ve very likely to be literally the only person here who actually cares about whether FS designates a particular cosmetic “flak” or whatever. As weeping.moon pointed out, the designations are irrelevant because there’s no actual in-game armour value for PCs. As such, the cosmetics are purely, well, cosmetic.
“Militarum Battlegear” as a category would include everything from Kasrkin carapace armour to the full-body flak-suits worn by Valhallan troops in the form of overcoats.
Both of those are wrong, flak and carapace armor designate different levels of survivability, cadian flak and carpace are mad of the same stuff, carapace just put more of it over more of you. flak armor that’s a big slab of plasteel is as protective as flak that’s a fine mesh vest undershit worn under a uniform.
“Most guardsmen wear Flak Armour, a cheaply produced, lightweight armour vest provided en-masse to Imperial Guard units. A flak vest consists of a skeleton of lightweight, flexible metal. This skeleton is then wrapped in multiple layers of a high-tensile fabric that is the main protective component of the armour. After multiple layers of fabric are affixed to the skeleton,the vest is given its toughened outer shell.”
“Carapace Armour consists of large, rigid plates of armaplas or ceramite molded to fit parts of the body.”
Also keep in mind the point was always ‘there’s only flak in game’ which is not subject to your opinion if you think that’s somehow wrong info. They even have a couple of the flak armors referenced to as ‘heavy’ flak, so obviously if they wanted to bother making the distinction they would have. Oh wait, they do with helmets.
And the Cadian 802nd green version of the cosmetic I posted is literally called ‘Flak Armor (Relic of Cadia)’ so obviously its carapace armor. /no brain
cadian flak and carpace are mad of the same stuff, carapace just put more of it over more of you.
No it’s not.
Here is knight, landsknecht and hoplite armor. Knight and landsknecht have steel armor, hoplit bronze, but landsknecht and hoplite armor % covereage is more alike and much less than knight’s.
Same thing with kasrkins, arbitrators, scions - they have different coverage and style but same material - carapace, which is a composite material that includes ceramite. It’s just specific sets, mostly cause you need to distinguish small soldiers on your table. And so you rarely see full flak set anywhere, cause arts most of the time depict minis. And cause of that carapace is kinda synonymous to kasrkin, scion, arbites armor.
From the lore perspective some hive ganger or bounty hunter can put carapace vest + flak helmet + flak bracers + flak greaves. Or some planet governer can have a pair of bikini panties one made of carapace and one of flak both look indetical cause local fashion.
The same principle is used in the production of Guardsman helmets and bracers. Guards for knees and legs are also produced
All this arguing over Flak and Carapace and materials vs coverage…
GW’s never been consistent and armor saves in tabletop 40k have always been something of a nebulous combined metric of both things.
There’s plenty of Carapace armored 4+ save units and models that looks visibly less heavily armored than a basic 5+ flak armored Cadian. Compare a DKoK Grenadier to a basic plastic Cadian and the Cadian by all rights looks to be generally sporting more armor except over the lower torso, or a 3E metal Stormtrooper that looks like he’s more wearing a vacuum suit than a heavily armored carapace set. Even relative to the plastic Scion (shudders at the stupid rename) kits, the bog-standard Cadians are only missing some knee, belly, and forearm armor, while Kasrkin have yet more armor coverage over even the Scions (particularly on the thighs and insides of the arm).
Meanwhile Krieg Guardsmen with a single metal shoulder guard and a Valhallan with a large blanket wrapped around their torso Soviet style and a Catachan with a literal tank-top all have the same 5+ armor save as those beefy armored looking Cadians. Hell, the basic plastic Cadians look Carapace armored next to the old 90s metal Cadians.
I always thought they have armor vest under the coat. Ayway it’s mostly about ability to differ elite troops from regular cannon fodder on the table top and you can’t depict harder material on a plastic soldier. And then you have different elite troops like scions and kasrkins, so scions have that renaissance cuirass style and kasrkins more armor.
Aye yeah, there’s limited ways to visually depict armor/gear quality and materials. Part of the issue is also that Flak originally worked a bit differently in the first couple 40k editions, it was only a 6+ save that was 5+ against blasts and fragmentation, so coats and jackets made sense there on models. With 3E they made the Cadians the showcase line, released new up-armored looking models, and made the Flak save 5+ all around closing some distance both in visual and game terms with some higher-echelon units.
As far as vests under armor goes, Imperial Armour V gives an overview of a Krieg guardsman’s kit, it specifically calls out the armor as the helmet and shoulderpads specifically without any reference to anything under the coat, while describing the coat and the rest of the uniform being primarily environmental protection.
