You just perfectly summed up both my Plasma Gun and my Recon Lasgun playstyles.
Although with my Recon Lasgun, I still do often equip my Folding Shovel to either push or kill trash so that I can continue shooting at something more important… or when a Crusher’s getting a little too close for comfort, I’ll just jam my Folding Shovel’s pick straight into his skull and then resume blasting.
yeah right, if it has cleave why not shooting at trash mobs, i would do that even if they give it an aoe small blast instead of cleave like i suggested
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.
I’m all for a harder difficulty/mode where team positioning is made more important by the fact that you can gun down your teammates.
But I also think the friendly cleave change was one of the best changes FS has made to the game post-launch. It made more weapons feel viable to me than any balance pass we’ve had.
the whole reason this was changed is because friendly Ogryn take up half the gd field of fire…
Friendly fire at this point would just screw everyone in public matches and give more tools to trolls, so no…
I also don’t like the prospect of FF since melee players tend to ignore what their teammates are doing and will cross lines of fire themselves blocking their teammates sight-lines…
May as well let it do full damage and pop your teammates with one bolt… add melee friendly fire while we’re at it… watch your engagement zones…
Would be great as an option in private matches, though.
DRG has substantially softer respawns, far greater player mobility, doesn’t concentrate enemies nearly as much, and typically gives you more time/distance to engage enemies, particularly during events. HD2 also has friendly fire, but like DRG, has much softer respawns even more room to move about.
Meanwhile, the VT series has substantially less shooting and no Ogryn butts to block entire lanes of fire 
just another reason why martydom is the better keystone with its constant tdr.
Bring back friendly fire.
Learn to pick your shots.
I really do not get this logic.
You pick shots badly, so your teammates get to suffer?
That’s me! 
Fatshark kind of designed the game that way though. If I’m an Ogryn in melee range trying to kill shooters and gunners, I do need the toughness from landing heavy attacks to survive. Only then does my melee character function. A veteran shooting through me to kill everything I’m trying to heavy attack can literally cause my character to no longer function. The same concept can be true with a zealot needing crits for TDR, or a vet needing them for toughness regen.
It’s not like anyone’s complaining about the killsteal for “that was MY kill!” reasons, it has actual mechanical relevance and the game is designed around it. Think of it as friendly fire, but with multiple layers of abstraction. If you could at the very least block the shots, it would reign in the denial-of-toughness somewhat (as it did before that patch). There can also be other solutions to that problem, but they’d probably involve redesigning a LOT of talents. The underlying issue here is that Fatshark designed multiple very important class talents around “on kill…”
Although to be honest usually I just solve this by running to the next room when someone does it so I can actually fight things I get to hit. They’ll be able to kill everything they want to kill in their room (or die trying). I’m fine with this, mostly, but I didn’t mind the way it was before either. It’s just the natural consequence of the game being designed this particular way.
Oh no! SPEEDRUNNER OUTED THEMSELF!
I kid, of course… I don’t care about running ahead. You’re either good enough to hold your own or you’ll be dead and the group will pick you up. If the group can’t handle a few groups of static enemies and maybe handful of extra spawns, that’s on them.
Seems to me like FS made the deliberate decision to cut out FF so they dont need to wade through the torrent of tickets that would be produced. Some rightfully reporting grievers, many from salty people that got blown up by a Frag Bomb they slid into.
Havoc might be a place to bring back FF, but I am not sure how popular that would be. Many weapons, especially on Ogryn, would do terribly with FF. Most of them are either inaccurate, or grenade launchers. Bolters would probably turn into annoyances that rival the Hagbane. The AoE only tickles, but it lights up everyones screen that is somewhat close to the explosions.
I would probably enjoy an FF modifier, just for the heck of it. It would be a way to make people shuffle up the type of gun they grew comfortable with for something that just works better with an FF mechanic.
So, the playerbase is almost entirely matchmaking with randoms on high difficulties and some folks actually want to bring back FF like the old days? I was going to joke about it, but a few posts in someone suggested it. Did the work for me.
It’s not as fundamentally out there as you’re making it out to be. VT2 had it. It involves balancing to make sure certain weapons do very little and others do high FF damage.
So another layer of nuanced balancing for every weapon then? Perhaps changing the modifier based on difficulty and usage rate by skill? Perhaps a modifier depending on if you bring in a friend to the firegroup vs all randoms. It shouldn’t take but 1, maybe 2 years for them to balance out. Maybe they can get it right in time for the Switch release.
I’m absolutely on board with minimal FF on ranged weapons, complete with players counting as the “first target” so the weapon does less damage to actual enemies behind the player being shot through.
While also not actually stopping the bullet. And yes, that’s probably only viable in auric, and not with the current approach to “difficulty”. … oh well, forget it.
Probably. I think it would be fun to have but I also acknowledge how much effort it is. I just don’t think it’s right to act like it couldn’t be done
FF is a bad idea in Tide games, it works in other Coop-FPS because they are pure shooters without functional melee combat and players are not supposed to be close to enemies and instead run from them and shoot which is not how Tide games work. FF will be only used for griefing and add more toxicity especially when there’s a class with a bigger hitbox and some ranged option are quite strong like the gunlugger would shred his teammates in seconds.
That’s not how it panned out in Vermintide at all