Yup agree. my friend groups prefer fun over difficulty, FS hasnt figured out how to make difficult fun.
Note to FS: bulletsponges ≠ fun
Without derank, all of Havoc would be filled with weak players, who spend ten or more attempts just to reach each next rank (and instantly leave if they feel they’ve landed in a weak team that won’t carry them to the finish). With such teammates, the chances of winning a particular match would be around—or even below—10%.
those people would eventually lock in or go play the normal difficulties so it really doesn’t matter at all, there’s no downside to removing derank
The majority, or even the overwhelming majority of players, simply aren’t at the level of play where they should be allowed in. They’ll ruin matches on cooldown. The average Darktide player in Havoc 40, if I’m imagining that difficulty level correctly, is like a Silver in a team of Globals in CS:GO—able to do almost nothing and going down every minute.
i mean even if newer players join havoc for a bit i’m happy with new people enjoying the gamemode anyways
better than the current havoc where fun isn’t allowed (unless ur at h40)
It. Does. Not. Work.
Current havoc is full of over reaching skill levels so why are you defending it?
And I’d be happy for a quitter to be soft locked until that mission is over. That mechanic can remain, but then their slot could get filled and give the team a chance at surviving…but without risk of demotion they could just have fun with it anyway.
I just want to play h40! That’s all I want to do. Hence my suggestions of adding a difficulty above auric on the normal board. Then this horrible havoc mode could remain for the people who want to keep believing it actually works at skill gating, and the rest of us could just have fun in a nightmare game difficulty.
Havoc was created to give low skill players something to feel good about, they’ll probably never give us anything meant for good players
Well first things first I only play with randoms and my highest level achieved is 33. Just so you can categorize where my opinion is coming from.
My condolences to your frustrating with the ten deranks every three months but to me it sounds like it achieves player retention quite good in your case. In my case the never achieving max level achieves a similar result; I also do spend most of my (small) available free time in havoc. A certain small frustration does wonder on your motivation.
Bad teammates in havoc 40 would I account to a too soft degradation but I think we already discussed that on a different thread.
The rank system isn’t what’s making me come back though, it’s the gameplay. The hard gameplay that I have to wait to be selected for like a kid in a school playground waiting to be picked for the footie game from a lineup.
Most of my almost 2k hours in DT were spent before havoc. So havoc rank retention is a myth. I just want to play the missions. I think my playtime actually dropped off after the first havoc rotation where it actually set everyone to zero as a bug. I just couldn’t face it again and played other games for the first time in months.
Don’t conflate the desire for h40 gameplay with the horrible rank gating.
I’m sure FS were worried that player retention would drop when they unlocked the weapons but I don’t think that was the case. Certainly wasn’t for me anyway. I played more.
FS need to start having some confidence in their incredible gameplay.
this, if I want to compare 
size I go for actual gameplay and not some tag or numbers tank control console-joe got cause he shared some 
weed with his buddies and got carried.
saw some horrible performance from “40"strutting dudes that failed at the most simple engagements so other than watching someone clutch, carry or even pull his weight, titles and numbers mean 
to me
now for the obligatory yadda yadda sob-story,
any day now local med-servitors will call me in for 3-4 weeks to basically nuke and rebuild my bone marrow.
got no clue when I’ll be on “normal performance” again but even the 3 weeks in quarantine, why bother starting havoc now knowing it’ll rot under my ass if I cant access my pc nor be in the condition to do it?
do I enjoy havoc 40s, yep despite all the jank and stupid rainbow colors.
will I jump through all these hoops to play it?
nope, rather enjoy some good carries and clutches in auric maelstrom that nets me 10 matches recorded rather than 2-3 possible duts.
and most of this goes back to the design idea of people having a premade on speed dial or even the desire to maintain 3 other people in good relations.
right now I got the “luxury” of free time as long as I get rid of 
s gift.
otherwise I need to sit out 9-10hour shifts and aint in the mood to even speak to people afterwards, nor willing to control my temper.
so even getting 3 others scheduled at these times is “something”
auric maelstrom, hop in, clutch cuss carry scream by myself or with buddy pirx is an excellent venting option.
having to apply to a party finder is not.
teams either click from the start or they’re doomed to fail, going through a thousand filters isn’t guaranteeing the dude with high levels to know his nor if he deserved the true survivor tag or got carried by his friends.
I’d play havoc 40 as default if it was the default option.
thus far my time gets wasted by inept players out of their league either way, 20 minutes down the drain in havoc is the same as 20 minutes slogfest through auric maelstrom.
Oh dude 
I hope the op goes smoothly and you’re back killin’ ‘eretix asap!
Just make sure they don’t accidentally turn you into a Medicae when you’re under! Sneaky Mechanicuses!
thx mate, I’ll have the distinct pleasure of a one time high dose chemo (10x of what knocked me flat couple days the last 6 months 2x a week 
) so I’m “curious” how that goes 
on the plus side I’ll not be wasting time shaving for the immediate future so thats a plus?
I’ll be lurking and already got some weeks worth of footage pre-loaded so my channel is fed even when I’m 
my guts out 
for emprah an rashuns
As I suggested earlier, the simplest solution would be to offer the option to “buy attempts” at the current rank. Lost a mission? No problem — there’s always the option to replenish your three attempts (by +1). Say, 10,000 regular coins, 1,000 Melk’s Coins, or 1 Grimoire (if they counted and finally made sense to collect). Or even 10 aquilas, if that’s applicable to premium currency.
Old players will finally have a reason to spend wealth they currently have nowhere to put.
New players will have more incentive to play normal mode, collect books, and complete weekly bounties.
If you attach premium currency to a game mode as a cost, not a reward, I will personally crusade against your company for the rest of my life. I don’t think even FS is that stupid.
And this isn’t exceeding one’s level at all. It’s the inevitable consequence of mathematical statistics. Based on the current system — one win to rank up and three losses to rank down — a perfect player in a perfect team, where every member has the same skill level and plays at their proper rank, will statistically have three losses for every win. That’s all there is to it. It’s literally what the system is designed to produce.
If we want the win rate to increase, we need to punish losses more severely. I believe every loss should result in a rank decrease — then the win rate would statistically rise from 25% to 50%. However, many players would lose their current ranks and would never be able to reach them again, but that would be a more accurate reflection of their actual strength in the game.
Also, I believe that each class should have its own separate Havoc rank.
If you genuinely think losing a strike is due to that individuals skill level alone…in havoc(!?) then frankly I’m not going to engage anymore in this discussion as that is beyond fantasy.
I don’t know your skill level, but you’re definitely not the only one who wants that — and many of those who want it aren’t even remotely capable of playing at that level. Take me, for example. Today, for the first time in my life, playing as an Arbites, I successfully completed a rank 20 mission, and then lost my rank after three failed attempts to reach rank 21.
And then imagine me signing up for rank 40. How different would I really be, in terms of usefulness, from a bot? I ran a test in SoloPlay and found that without the dog and without activating Castigator’s Stance, I can barely win a melee fight against a single Dreg Rager — and even then, I lose almost all my health.
Would you want a teammate like me on Havoc 40? You’d get three of me right away — or even weaker ones.
auric maelstrom I’d agree for the game leaves you enough resources to compensate even for 3 complete failures of a team.
the odd net or dog excluded.
havoc though with all the attricion stacked against you and modifiers that make solo for most classes/loadouts neigh impossible on the same % as a perfect 0.00001 speed run in other games is not a measure for “personal skill” other than do your 25% and maybe a tad above that.
you’re alone in the face of 4 healing bulwarks you’re basically fkked to the extend of only how far the game allows you to kite until the inevitable end.
it’s one of the few things space marine 2 has done “better” solo is actually a default option given what the game throws at you.
so far I did havoc 40 with randoms, no coms, no meta loadout oggy every time but this.
but real freedom of showing personal autonomy and thus 100% self reliant skill, auric maelstrom is rather the place to reliably clutch, carry and “solo”
Yeah why not? If you kept dying then you’d get the hint pretty quick and drop down to a level where you are more comfortable, as many do on the normal board as many have attested to on these forums. Also we would be less likely to have a bot as a replacement as quick play would finally be an option.
If we didn’t lose ranks then I wouldn’t be crying if I lost a mission due to unavoidable circumstances…which is ironically well over 80% of my wipes at high havoc in its current form. I lose ranks through no fault of my own constantly. I’m certainly not perfect and do make some mistakes but the vast majority of the time I’m wiped because of circumstances well out of my control.
Why do you care so much about gating people anyway?
Random players will always, always, always be the biggest rng hidden modifier in DT. there is no avoiding it, whether on the normal board or auric or even h40 games in the current system. It is literally unavoidable.
Your equation about deranking only works if it’s actually purely skill that decides wins or wipes. The rng modifiers in DT go hard and muddy the waters thicker than nurgle soup.
As a compromise, accept my suggestion of giving a H40 difficulty on the normal board above auric and keep havoc however you like with the horrid ranks etc.
Of course, much depends on your teammates as well, but it’s precisely because of the current weak filtering system that the ideal average teammate will have a 25% win rate — and you’d probably prefer a teammate with a better record.
However, if the derank system were removed entirely, you could easily end up in the same boat with teammates who have a 10% win rate — or even 5%. And that’s not even the limit: there might be a player who has only just barely managed to complete a Heretical Maelstrom with the easiest modifiers, and yet immediately starts farming attempts in Havoc 40. Such a player could easily ruin matches, practically guaranteeing losses for their teammates. And in your hypothetical dream team, you might end up with not just one of them — but several
To sum up: any weakening of the derank system — and especially its complete removal — will result in even weaker players ending up on your team, and your personal win rate will inevitably go down.