Can Gunlugger Ogryn Get an Actual Decent Keystone?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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Gunlugger Ogryn is pretty cool, but not my go to build mainly because the keystone sucks ween, and the passive talents along the way are pretty mid. I don’t perform badly or anything using gunlugger, but its underwhelming when I just have to rely on a “chance” to roll lucky bullet that really doesn’t do anything significant.

Sure you can get reduced CDR, roll more crits, not consume ammo, but it just feels lackluster just slapping it on and hoping you roll it. Its a really small chance is my biggest gripe, im not totally against chance based things.

So I offer some ideas I had, how about we replace the keystone with something like:

MAIN KEYSTONE-“Ranged critical hits cause a small explosion (like staggers 3-4 small dudes) at the targets location”

For grenade launchers, lets have some sort of cluster bomb explosion when rolling a crit. Kind of like an armor piercing round, and yes I know this is also a “chance” keystone but this would be way cooler than just “Oh you don’t consume ammo every time you roll the 8%”.

Then some of the keystone augments could be:

AUGMENT- “Don’t consume ammo if you kill multiple combatants with one small explosion from keystone”
(Grenade launcher cluster bomb kills are increased to gain this benefit)

AUGMENT- “Staggering multiple enemies with a ranged attack grants 4% crit chance stacking up to 5 times”

AUGMENT- “Ranged critical hits (this primarily means the small explosions) apply 1 stack of 5% Brittleness stacking up to 3 times”

Then the talent massacre could be bumped up to:
TALENT- “Killing an enemy grants 2.5% crit chance stacks up to 10 times or Elite/Specials grant 5% stacking up to 5 times to a maximum of 25%” (These don’t stack to 50%)

With those ideas tossed out I’d like to have some sort of grenade restoring talent for the gunlugger side Or just get 2 frag bombs one or the other.

For the grenade talent if we don’t get 2 out right maybe have a talent called Monstrous Reward

TALENT- “If you assist your team in killing a monstrosity you get a guaranteed grenade” Applies to both frag bomb and the box.

I don’t want this talent to be a chance perk like the vet has, but I also don’t want it to be too easy to obtain like “killing 7 elites/specials in 10 seconds” You would just get too many, BUT then I don’t want to make it too hard to obtain one where you only get like 1 or even none per mission. Monstrosities was my best bet even though its RNG on how many monstrosities spawn. Plus Daemonhosts exist, so you can fight one to get a grenade back if you really wanted to.

All these are theoretical and could be tuned up or down, I was kind of just guesstimating what values some of these new perks should be. Im no expert at game balance in a game like this so feel free to throw more ideas out or criticize mine, I just want gun ogryn to be a bit cooler tbh.

Cheers,

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I’m just gonna leave this here:

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I must admit, my Gunlugger build tend to divert left and grab the Feel No Pain Keystone instead as it feels more impactful.

I think the biggest problem with Gunluggers is there power is so concentrated on these tiny windows. Yes you do insane damage, but your team has better give you all the ammo or pretty soon you’ll run dry and be a very aneamic Ogryn.

I think Gunluggers need some way to actually regenerate ammo rather than just a chance not to consume it. One can get you off the ground when you have zero Ammo, the other simply slightly prolongs it.

If there was a modified scavenger like effect that only worked for you, that would be good. As it stands, I think Gunluggers are heavily reliant on a veteran with Scavenger to make them last and that’s not always possible.

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I’ve found that keystone to work great. But you’re right that it really depends on the build and the synergies are very odd.

Like, we have a talent that increases crit on a class that doesn’t do crits (with rare exceptions). And most of everything from PBB’s Light 'em Up to BLO’s Lucky Bullet all proc per shot / hit. So it clearly favors fast weapons. Which is why for example even from the stubbers Gorgo is generally worse than Achlys. Not only is Achlys faster to equip, but it has what almost twice as many bullets and shoots them out twice as fast, meaning it’s going to proc everything way faster including keeping the CD’s low.

So a full gunlugger is absolutely viable, but very restricting. Something like Ripper V with Blaze Away & Cavalcade, Light 'em Up and right lane down works fantastically and will literally clean entire hallways while recharging the ult about as fast as you’re done using it. Stubbers make for great boss killers with way better ammo economy too. But everything else, especially the slow hitters, I find work better for hybrid builds where you leave that keystone alone.

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Yeah, all 3 of Ogryn’s keystones, are just boring. They don’t change the way you play at all, just bit more numbers in some direct.
Compare it to the vet’s, where every keystone require some kind of action, for it to benefit you.
Big mans could get some love.

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That’s sadly giga true, and to be completely honest I see no reason to play Heavy Hitter ogryn vs Feel no pain ogryn. Either one of those trees require you to heavy attack to a degree and also most weapons on Ogryn are straight up better with heavy attacks. The damage reduction on heavy attack bleed combo is nutty and a no brainer (and you get Dominate too since it’s there and still good after nerf). You get both damage and defense at the same time. But getting Heavy hitter in most cases won’t push you over important breakpoints so might as well get more tanky with Feel no pain. Then there’s shooty Ogryn which is fun and not even that bad, but in quickplay it’s rough on the ammo. So unless they change it so that on that side of the tree there’s a talent that says “Gain 50% ammo efficiency” I think I’ll play shooty ogryn just once in a while.

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That’s basically Achlys atm.

Also on topic: I have zero interest in making one of the most OP and broken Ogryn options even more OP and broken.

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Please burn Lucky Bullet to the ground and build it up as something different, thank you.

I do exactly the same.

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I like lucky bullet though it feels like it isn’t there. It does end up saving ammo in the long run but I do agree that it mostly is there for the stubbers.

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For my own part, I’d argue that the Ogryn ones are perhaps more “boring”, but reinforce what you already do within the natural gameplay. The Veteran ones are weird, often requiring unnatural actions on the part of the player (e.g. swapping weapons just for its own sake, standing still) to take advantage of them, seemingly drawn more from traditional turn based game design paradigm than a real time horde shooter.

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Either replace Lucky Bullet with something else or rename it unlucky bullet because that’s what it is

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Yep, this is the way.

I feel like that, and the ogryn penances requiring 10,000 of something are directly punishing me for that time I RickRolled an FS dude at launch.

Yeah and the nerf hurt lugger more than it did the vet it seems.

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