Camo Expert would have made the Marksman build an even more useful keystone.
Currently it’s very difficult to keep up with the stacks in a marksman…
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Marksmans focus being hard to utilize and camo expert being gone are not correlated and bringing camo expert back, won’t fix what’s wrong with marksmans focus.
I say good riddance to camo expert and if you wanna use it still, there’s the -90% threat talent under infiltrate.
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This is called now:
- Low profile (stealth) -90% threat for 10 seconds
- Marksman focus: for the fact you have to not move
Combine both, use stealth just to proc low profile and you have your camo expert back (as you can’t move, that’s exactly what it was before).
Bad news is that it lasts only 10 seconds and that Marksman focus, by forcing to not move or restrict it, can transform you in a good target for all enemies.
You just have to accept that you loose stacks, but then you quickly gain them back by killing enemies with weakspot hits.
Think the stacks gained as “adapting to your position”.
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Camo expert vets were the worst. They basically couldn’t exist unless teammates were around to carry the burden of all of the aggro for them, and then they’d crumple the instant that aggro would shift to them since they weren’t accustomed to standing on their own two feet.
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Infiltrate + Relentless + Overwatch + Low Profile.
You’re welcome. . .
Now work on your positioning, and map knowledge, because even though the above is indeed harder to use than Camo, it is actually way better and more useful to yourself and the team. But now you need to work on the noted two skills to make the combination shine.
For folks meming on MF, it is not necessary, and contrary to the memes it can be used reliably on the move if you’re running a counterfire set up (though not a must), and are a reasonably decent shot. No need to crab walk across the map. Run it with IAGs for ez mode, Kant 1a if you’re a sweatlord, or HHs if you’re a hipster.
FTFY, the feat was fine, you should’ve gotten off pubs and ran premades if dealing with bad vet players was that traumatizing for you.
Related: Reddit thread on Marksman possibly having threat reduction
(For the record, I don’t feel that poster is correct based on the games I’ve played with MF.)
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If this somehow works and is bugged doing the exact opposite, then feeling like a disabler magnet when I play MF build makes sense… Have to play a few more games with it.
I think MF doing more for fast-firing weapons is kinda the main problem with MF.
Supposed sniper keystone overcharges IAGs… Great, very well designed. /s
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The dynamic and function is fine IMO, but yeah the design aspect of it reeks of tabletop RP logic. Would be better if represented as a “gunslinger/fire team gunner” type of theme instead of the Designated Marksman theme they’re going for. Besides IAGs or the K1a try out the las pistol on it, makes you feel like Jack Bauer. Out of all HHs, it does very well with the V3 too, but the ammo efficiency for the build is somewhere down in hell even if you run it with onslaugh or rending strikes. The V7 is viable too, but if you can make it work you get an arrogant elitist pass, at least from me, nailing headshots, especially multiple in a row can be a real b@tch on it.
I tried it this out today on the back of that thread, first time I’d used MF since its introduction. I purposefully played a ‘low hostility’ approach at times just to see whether I would be attacked. Even when standing still and not shooting or engaging in melee for periods of time, enemies came for me regardless. They would run past team mates to attack me specifically. At the end (it was the ‘upload false intel’ mission) I was stood on the control panel at the balcony overlooking the stairs to the far left and trading shots with the occasional gunner who cropped up at the middle bit. I had multiple groups of enemies come for me including several sets of Maulers and they ignored closer team mates to do it.
Perhaps it is something they weren’t sure on adding back in and wanted to see how MF performed with players before actually adding it in.
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m also in the camp that thinks left-side Vet should be a more general “shooty” specialization, but that’s not what they were going for.
Considering how much Helbore/Las gets out of the keystone running MK5 IAG with it almost feels like an exploit. I just don’t get how this got past testing at all. It just doesn’t feel right.
Haven’t tried that one for some reason. Good idea, will do. Love me some las pistol action.
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I found MF to be very polarising, and it seems to be related to what guns the users chose. Personally i ran a HHmk7 on my first games and it was very gratuitous. I have yet to try it with the lasguns, but ive noticed that there are some flaws with the design of MF itself.
Firstly, because the stacks are gained on weakpoint kills, the stacking favours weapons with good breakpoints. HHmk7, lasguns, hellbore etc are good examples. Problem is most weapons with good breakpoints, like the revolver, seldom need more finesse damage (well crits aside), and those that may benefit from the additional finesse damage tend to not have great breakpoints for easy stack building.
For example the HHmk3 can theoretically 1 tap a dreg gunner if all three shots are headshots, but due to various reasons it is incredibly difficult to achieve (flinching, suppression, recoil etc), and when i went into a game with it i found myself unable to keep my stacks up frequently (unlike with the mk7).
Secondly the there is actually a modifier that i think offers little value - 15 stacks. For reload speed if may be a little more valuable, but i simply dont think having that many stacks is helpful for reaching new breakpoints for most cases. This sort of goes along with the nature of getting stacks itself; guns that are easy to build stacks with dont need that many stacks, and guns that could benefit from the stacks dont get them easily.
Maybe a bit of a tuning is in order: if MF works of weakpoint hits, it will instantly make the keystone a lot more viable for most weapons. Naturally they might increase the penalty for moving, but as long as stacks are easy to build itll be an okay trade off.
I agree completely. Camo or now Low Profile (90% threat reduction for 10s after leaving stealth), while really strong and welcome on the melee path, would be far more valuable on the left ranged path instead.
Executioner’s Stance or Marksman’s Focus needs a sub-talent with Camo effects, for example for a few seconds per kill or something. The entire left path is arguably the worst specialization track between all classes by far.
It’s supposed to specialize in ranged, yet it not only gives you no tools to stay ranged in the first place, but Marksman’s Focus actually punishes you for harming your ability to reposition & dodge to handle the melee trash that’s always going to make their way to you anyway, while the Executioner’s Stance barely adds anything of value and means you’ll be giving up the other 2 ults which are far better to actually enable ranged play. All in all, aside from some of the passives and Survivalist aura for ammo, the left tree makes you worse at ranged than the other two options. x.x
Won’t contradict you…
Marksman’s focus is, for me garbage so they can do whatever they want with this thing… I hate how it works, I tend to move a lot and a talent that restricts my move is not somethjing I want (like I don’t want to switch constantly of weapon).
But, about the OP demande, I am sorry but, I would not like seeing FS bring back camo expert.
Camo expert was great for sniping (I think to the helbore here) and you could really be a good support for your team. It was also more pression on your team.
I think that a sort of camo expert + marksman’s focus would be OP and also terrible for other teammates.
No need to see that coming back, even as an option for executionner stance (that would make such build really too strong and by a lot).
I feel like that’s taking too much from infiltrate’s niche, and removing some of the reason you might want to run mostly left tree with infiltrate. As has been said a million times now we just need some pruning and compression of the tree so crossing lines is less punishing.
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Holy Sigmar, can you image splitting the aggro 3 ways instead of 4 after the last update?
Thanks but no thanks.
With amount of stealth, we already are.
- you can always crouch move without loosing stacks, and with the expanded talent you actually gain stacks while moving like this.
- Headshots grant you a 1 second window of free movement.
- weakspot kills grant you 3 seconds of free movement.
if you actually practice abit you will find you actually never have to stand still , point 2 keeps you moving while ads and 3 seconds is a huge window to relocate in after each kill
I cannot dodge, run etc… something I continuously do in the missions. I like fast gameplays.
This keystone is just a loose of power for me. Same for the specialist one (i don’t want to switch of weapons when not needed just to get a bonus). And the focus doesn’t fit my needs.
There are many more better options than these keystones (like bonus against elite, +25% ammos, bonus against ogryns and monster, rending +10%, melee critic rate +10%, rending on repeated hits etc) especially when the behavior that imply these keystones is against how you play your character.
In other words, don’t try to convince me, I have all my 16 veteran builds without a keystone.
These keystones go against the way I play a veteran in this game…
Better taking anything and get the best of 2 bottom trees.
Maybe I missed it, but these 3 seconds have to icon associated, so you never know if you will loose stacks or no.
But, anyways, this is not how I want to play my veteran. The only weapon I could maybe use with this keystone is the helbore.
ok
i was just pointing out it worked differently to how you said
is simply not right.