Reworking MarksmanFocus

NOTE: i posted this before hand on the steam forums as well so if you wish to read it there you can :slight_smile:

The current itteration of Marksmanfocus isnt good with how the game is played by the majority, i understand that the keystone is ment to be focused for the laid back sniper role that goes away with the team from time to time, i made a full rework system and i do hope Fatshark looks into this reworks and rework points to make this keystone betterā€¦ this is my personal opinion on how they should change the keystone but TLDR; read down below and please share this with the fatshark team :).

Original stats:
7.5% finesse strength (weakspotdamage/crit) (10 stacks=75% 15 stacks =113%)
1%reloadspeed
3 stacks of focus per headshot kill (1x)
Kills allow you to keep stacks for 6 seconds
Headshot hits allow you to keep stacks for 3 seconds
-negatives: each time you run/slide/dodge/walking removes one stack
Each stack is removed once per second if doing these actions (1x per 1second)

HOW THE KEYSTONES WORK: each subsequent keystone is ment to be a simplistic specified build set up that is suppose to fit many overall playstyles for veteran as a whole

  • ā€œMARKSMAN FOCUSā€ is suppose to involve the user to have a set sniper based role and focus on headshots while offering headshot bonuses and reload speed ā€œto up their dpsā€
    -ā€FOCUS TARGETā€ is similar to marksman except more well rounded and generally focuses on raw forms of damage while highlighting more dangerous targets ā€œthis is suppose to be ment to be played as a boss damage keystone or a high value target acquisition keystone for teamplayā€
    -ā€WEAPON SPECIALISTā€ is ment to be more the aggressive keystone and is ment to allow veteran to utilize critical strike CHANCES (not damage) and attack speed to help him ease the fight for his favor when dealing with hordes

NOW, personally for me i think currently how the keystones for veteran work, dont work well in terms of the devs design philosophy (mainly for marksman focus) let me explainā€¦

A keystone is generally ment to allow more broader forms of power or enforce a set playstyle that is boht FUN and REWARDING, without making the player invest or put too much work to make it worth while, and if they are ment to force points into it, said point difference changes the keystone fundamentally to what their playstyle is or how it effects them in battle ā€œbig example: (WARP SYPHON) the first key is just a simple cooldown reduction to ones own ultimate, HOWEVER the extra perks layered help buff its usefulness, from either peril generation, DAMAGE, TOUGHNESS REGEN, and difference in chances to obtain MORE warps as well as more stacks
Another one can be considered is Martydom as on its own its a simple flat damage increase for losing wounds per stack, when looking at its extra perks one offers an immense increase in attack speed and the other toughness damage reduction which is super hugeā€¦ā€¦

The difference between these keystones and veterans is not also just how much one needs to invest in them to make them work, but also with how they help complement the keystone and the playstyle they are trying to enforce MORE SO without the need to add extra legwork to make it more efficient.

Currently the only keystone that can work well ON ITS OWN or similarly to as such is weapon specialist, as its bonsues are great on their own for an excellent offensive and defensive keystone to compliment almost any playstyle or every playstyle of play, as critical hit chance is a great addition to ones arsenal to boost ones damage, and attack and dodge speed is already a great defensive tool for when youre dealing with a horde.
(and while i will say you need an additional perk to make Focus target better that being called ā€œredacted fireā€ it still can hold merit on its own as the damage is calculated for everything on hand, from melee, bleed, and even for againā€¦ your allies as well)

-SO WHERE DOES MARKSMAN FOCUS SIT?!.. Well after testing and running it for a while at least possibly half a year and slowly moving away to focus target and weapon specialist its ment to TRY TO fit the role of a sniper buildā€¦ which rn snipers are not that strong of a playstyle to begin withā€¦ā€¦ I do personally feel it would compliment better as just a precision node but for now lets talk about how the perk layout works

So as stated above from teh beginning it offers and rewards players for headshots and headshots only it use to be WORSE offering only 3 seconds of immunity but hte 6 seconds is more then enough now with the way how combat works and how one needs to enter point A to B in terms of gameplay loop.
Your additional keystones are as follows
:heart::heart::heart::heart::heart: thier armor: 10%rending when at or over 10 stacks
Long range assassin: stacks go from 10-15 (ocks you out of camouflage)
Camouflage: generate stacks passively for .75 seconds while standing still (locks you out of L.R.A.)
Tunnel Vision: generate 5% toughness per stack and get 10% stamina per headshot kill

I WILL NOW LIST a few things mainly problems with how the keystone works, how it generally forces the player to play a certian way, and also how it is weaker over the other options (even if you COULD get more dps out of it)

Again as with playing around with a lot of the keystone in general, one of the upgrades one should always go for is again Camoflauge,now why do you ask? Well as of running and playing around with it, while its easy to get stacks its still not viable to wait around for a grunt to deal with while youre getting booty clapped by a bossā€¦ā€¦ā€¦. IF one needs to acquire a headshot to do more damage to a boss in order to achieve the same results as with per say FOCUS TARGETā€¦. Then that shows youre running the keystone wrong or that it is weak. Further more, the power of camouflage helps with general play and also again what veteran needs for it to work, headshots, while in practice 1 second is too fast to ā€œdischarge/remove stacksā€ its not as bad as some may see, the only bad part is when youre not running camouflage at all currently when running this keystone, as its the biggest handicap anyone can do to themselvesā€¦ā€¦. Getting free stacks for standing still (2 per second, sorry math is wrong in my head) is a no brainer for general play and how the keystone effectively worksā€¦ā€¦. If you need stacks to do more damage thats fine, but compare that again to weapon specialist, where its based off kills as well
-the differnce between weapon specialist and this is that weapon specialist punihses you if you switch youre weapon too often, and can get back to you easily with the best layouts with just ONE STACK ONLYā€¦ think about it, ONE STACK to get all its plus sides for 10 seconds (or 5 for using a range gun) ā€¦ Vs only 3 stacks you keep for 6 that requires you to get a headshot kill WITH YOUR GUN, not even your melee weapon!!!

:heart::heart::heart::heart::heart: in armor is one where one would think it pair well with L.R.A, HOWEVER two arguments ill detail (or a few) as to why its still weak, you need still 4 headshot kills to acquire only 10% rending for your gun (keep in mind your gun not melee) VS rending strikes 10% rending flat without any needed legworkā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ So again i ask you, why work for the same amount of rending when i can choose a perk that offers that but better.
And while i see people argue that L.R.A. pairs well with :heart::heart::heart::heart::heart: in armor as you retian higher stacks to keep said rendingā€¦ again first point, why work more for hte same effort, and 2. YOU DO OVER 113% weakspot damage there is NO REASON to run rending IF YOU HAVE THAT MUCH DAMAGE MULTIPLIED TO YOUR WEAPON.

Long Range Assasin (L.R.A.) its a simple one its instead of giving you 75% weakspot+crit damage to headshots is now again 113%. Its a very strong bonus, but the more I ran this the more i realizedā€¦ i can just cut off the damage output VERY easily by just getting either bonus damage on enemies such as ā€œbring it downā€ ā€œRending strikesā€ or other damage sourcing perks that offset that bonus especially vs bosses and enemies as a wholeā€¦ its not that its bad but its just too much overkill for what you have on hand vs other perks you can spread out on the tree. YES im saying that 75% bonus crit and headshot damage is more than plenty then what most may say, is it nice to have? Yes, but then again it comes down to working for the headshots and keeping the stacks. Why work more for the same value vs other perks and keystones
Example: FOCUS TARGET offers you flat increase damage 4% for all sources of damage at 5 max stacks (20% more damage for free if enemy is tagged with all stacks) wanna know what pairs super well with it? Two bonsu upgrades (Focus+Direct Fire) Focus offers 8 stacks vs 5 and Direct Fire is what makes focus target SOOOO GOOOD for any damage or dmr build over marksman focusā€¦. Cause having PERMINANT DAMAGE for YOU AND YOUR TEAM in coherency for 10 :heart::heart::heart::heart::heart::heart::heart: seconds is TOO STRONG to not pass up, especially since this helps with teh stacking issue foucs target has and you can then spam spot like a junkie and deal intense damage VS doing more headshot damage when at 15 stacks vs 10ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦

Finally the last upgrade is Tunnel Vision where you get toughness and stamina back, NOTE that for me personally this toughness regen perk is either too low or doenst work for some odd reason as 5% seems like alot especially with 10 stacks overall ontop of camoflauge right? Well it doesnt seem to be in some cases, this again could be me but even then if it is i argue again for BOTH the other two keystones (weapon specialist and Focus target) they both offer different levels of toughness regen but again at a much easier rate and BETTER!!!

Focus target: (Target Down) 5% toughness and Stamnia PER stack if a tagged target is died given to BOTH YOU AND YOUR TEAM!!!

Weapon specialist: (On your toes) generate 20% toughness when switching for melee and range specialist at a cooldown of 3 seconds

NOT ONLY DO THESE TWO KEYSTONES OFFER BETTER TOUGNESS REGEN FOR AGAIN LESS EFFORT!!! BUUUUUUUUUT even focus target offers MORE Stamina VALUES for you AND YOUR TEAM!!! When you only get 10% per HEADSHOT KILL on Tunnel Visionā€¦ THINK ABOUT IT
(5 stacks=25% 8 stacks=40% STAMINA) vs (1 WEAKSPOT KILL= 10% stamina)
This sparing value and the way how easily you can spam even focus target skill is waaaaay too detrimental for Marksman focus, so much so that againā€¦ No matter what you do, no matter how you run it, you will ALWAYS put yourself at a disadvantage when comparing to other keystones on the boardā€¦ the stats show!!! And not only that the way how you are ment to USE the keystone shows as wellā€¦ā€¦ā€¦
I again understand they want players to use this as a sniper playstyle, thats perfectly fine, BUT the way how the game works (for me as i play on higher levels on maelstrom and aurics) its just not efficient enough compared ot the other keystone OPTIONS!!!.. plus its bonuses are TOO WEAK for it to be effectiveā€¦

MY REWORK OF THE KEYSTONE: MARKSMAN FOCUSā€¦
The general way how fatshark wants it to be is more for sniper role HOWEVER the way how its in practice is ment to be for more MARKSMAN/HEADSHOT rolls, mainly again for users that run high end automatics/precision weaponry

THUS this is what i feel the rework should beā€¦ā€¦.

BASE PERK (Marksman Focus) Each headshot KILL!!! offers you 1 stack ā€œelites/specialists offer 3ā€(maximum stacks of 80) each stack is permanent and last the ENTIRE MATCH till one dies OR the end of the match concludes ā€œEACH STACK offers the user 1% Finesse bonus strength ā€œmaximum of 80%ā€ and user receives 1% reload speed per stack at a maximum of ā€œ30%ā€
ā€œThis setup is there to not only ease the use of the perk but also make it more useful as a snowball effect. Do you want players to focus on headshots? BOOM you get stacks, plus the bonus reload speed should be boosted so users dps goes higher without needing other perks to offset itā€
(and while this would see more users use automatics thatā€™s totally fine this is ment to focus on just headshots alone, the keystone should benefit a lot more weapons then intended/advertised)

Tunnel Vision: offers the user TOUGHNESS REGENERATION up to 15% while bracing/aiming their weapon as well as a knockback when an enemy HITS THEM (MELEE ONLY) for 10 second cooldownā€¦ : WHEN I hear tunnel vision I think mainly of someone that is so hyper fixated on a single target that their attention is there and not elsewhereā€¦ the old status made it a quirky crit chance and toughness regen effect without it being effective for EITHER or THUS id rather be it a pure defensive status as itā€™ll not only ease the player to aim with their weapon in situations but also not be forced OUT of ADS or brace mode EVERY TIME an enemy flanks them from behindā€¦ and the cooldown is of course there so they donā€™t spam this effect in full still needing to actually think when to do so

Camouflage: Reduced threat level by 50% (cant ignore walkers) and said targets you kill with a headshot give suppression to OTHER targets around them ā€œ15 metersā€ for 1.5 seconds.on a 2 second cooldown. When i think of camo i think, sniper monkey moment, i think Sniper Elite or Sniper ghost 2 type stuffā€¦ā€¦ This will offer a beneficial bonus to again not only the user but ALSO offer a bonus suppression implementation towards other enemies making shooting for both you and your team 10x easier then how it is normallyā€¦ suppression right now is a super excellent tool and when i want people to run this i want them to make themselves either feel like a ghost in the shadow ready to SHOOT, or for someone to run amok with an auto just spraying allā€¦ā€¦ā€¦

Long Range Assassin: Increases max stacks of finesse strength from (80 to 100) increase reload stacks from (30 to 45) aim/brace weapon for 1.5 seconds to auto spot around 35 meters around said target (no spot limit) ā€œ autospotted targets last for only 4 secondsā€.
This is supposed to be the big boy moment for most people and offering a more traditional bonus of more stacks as well as a more supportive role where you can highlight an infinite amount of enemies by just highlighting units will also help immensely for both you and your team making it helpful again for a supportive role.

:heart::heart::heart::heart::heart: in Their armor: When shooting armored targets you inflict bleed stacks based of hitpoint (body shots=1bleed stack headshots=3) max stacks of 10, and shots against these enemies will spread 1 bleed stack per set hit around the enemy at a 3 meter radius)
This node i thought of at first to be pure hardcore rending but id much rather change it up and make it so its more area denial, not only will it help boost the dps factor of the user but again also help with what ever specified role they want to ā€œthis would be more catered to the automatic or rush build role.ā€ But overall this will also make it still a risk ish perk as not all enemies have armor

Please look into this rework in consideration fat shark and to those that want to share ti with them please do so i want this keystone to be more effective then how its original iteration is ftm :slightly_smiling_face:

little сhinks in crusherā€™s armor canceling inquisitorial acolytes

This would probably stack to max stacks within the first room in your average auric. Rather than snowbally, this would just functionally be a permanent bonus you get from the first room onwards and sucks progressively more the lower you drop your difficulty. I donā€™t think this concept works in Darktide like it did in VT2

3 Likes

80% finesse bonus and a 30% bonus to reload speed until death? Seems very balanced.

There are two chains of thought to solve ex stance

One, take away gold toughness from voc along with any and all ability cool down skills from the skill trees.

Or

Two, give ex stance double damage, wall hacks and instant reloads along with complete removal of recoil

The second route leads to further degradation of the game as the power scaling which is already completely out of control gets more and more out of control.

Oh weā€™re talking about marksman focus
The funny designed precision weapon keystone that works best with automatics.

1 Like

Marksmanā€™s Focus is just a bizarre skill in this game.

"Hey! Stand still in a game where

  • Getting hit from behind does extra damage.
  • Tox Flamers can set the ground on fire.
  • Snipers can rail your Toughness & Health
  • Tox Grenades can cover where you are.
  • Grenaders can cover the floor in fire
  • Ragers can melt your Toughness
  • 1 Shotgunner can melt your toughness (And they can come in squads of 5)
  • Gunners CAN and WILL kill you in 1.5 seconds if they can see you.
  • Maulers can oneshot your Toughness
  • Crushers can oneshotā€¦all of you.
  • Trappers can pin you.
  • Dogs can pin you
  • Poxbursters are walking bombs.
  • Mutants can tackle you
  • And thereā€™s bosses like the BoN and Plague Ogryn

But yeah; Letā€™s have a skill that requires standing still & punishes moving. :upside_down_face:
Oh yeah, and you have to move to actually win, so you start every encounter at 0 stacks.

Not to mention that itā€™s personal damage. Sure, it can go up to 115.5% bonus Finesse damage if you take Long Range Assassin.
But Focus Target boosts the damage of four players by up to 32% if you take Focused Fire.
Thatā€™s a damage bonus of 128%.
Plus, if you get incapped; Marksmanā€™s is effectively doing 0 damage. But Focus Target is still allowing your teammates to do more damage to whatever you tag.

Marksmanā€™s just makes 0 sense to pick in a team-based run-and-gun game.

3 Likes

Except you donā€™t do that with this keystone unless youā€™re playing it terribly badly.

Camouflage is a trap, and ever since they doubled the stack durations it became very reasonable to maintain max stacks just by continuing to hit head shots.

Literally just ignore the whole moving thing and treat the stack duration like any other, something you can maintain endlessly as long as you keep building stacks within the duration.

Regarding OPā€™s insane wall of text, MF is very good, it just has very limited use cases. Las Pistol and IAG. Recon, the faster firing hellbore, and the fastest firing inf las probably maximise their damage output with MF too but canā€™t speak from experience on those. People mistakenly try to use it with slow firing ā€œsniperā€ weapons but this is a noob trap you should figure out pretty quick if youā€™re giving MF a serious try.

Is it somewhat problematic MF has such a small pool of effective use cases, even if itā€™s legitimately GREAT in this niche?

Maybe, but I donā€™t know how to fix this. Certainly not with OPā€™s suggestion. Right now MF requires some active thinking or at minimum build planning to get great value out of, but it does this without being outright annoying like Weapon Specialist (no I donā€™t want to run around with my gun out to preserve the melee proc till enemies are in front of me thank you very much). You make a gamble how much you can get away with spamming your gun. The more you can get away with the better value you get.

This is a reasonable ask, itā€™s somewhat thoughtful to execute well, and if youā€™ve built yourself well for it you should consistently get at least decent value, with some encounters skyrocketing that value.

MF is more or less fine, itā€™s just going for keystones with Vet at all tends to make you feel point sparse.

1 Like

Hereā€™s a thought:

Every specialist, elite or shooter weakspot kill you get while ADS gives you a stack. Each stack gives you more Ranged Damage, reduces your spread and recoil, and increases the speed of your next reload up to a max of 4 stacks. When you stop ADS or reload, you lose all stacks, stacks also degrade overtime. This would work with both precision and automatic weapons and no longer encourage wasting bullets on melee trash if you can help it. The low total number of stacks ensures a sweet spot where you want to keep your stacks maxed, but youā€™re also more willing to drop ADS if necessary (Also ensures the last revolver shot has maximum benefit).

Nodes could increase movement speed while ADS, Provide Toughness on kill that scales with stacks, increased crit chance per stack and increased rending per stack (Those can be exclusive)

Alternatives could be weakspot kills while ADS give x% stamina back, which could make running Deadshot slightly more appealing. Or reloading gives you x seconds of invisibility based on how many stacks you have.

We could also have ā€œADS counts as blockingā€, which might open up some weird builds.

1 Like