Marksman Focus Keystone Feels Mediocre at Best

From time to time, to change the pace from the crowded melee fights, I like to engage a bit in the more shooty playstyle, a gameplay that just feels good due to the juicy Darktide combat system and plenty of cool guns to play with.

So, to satisfy my inner John Wick, I tried to make the Sharpshooter Archetype veteran work.
And while I can perform fairly well with the left side of the talent tree, I draw little joy from it because of one thing.

The Marksman Focus keystone.

This keystone is a thorn in my side since the rework of the talent trees. Team Leader vet is borderline OP, Infiltrator Vet does a very good job, both archetypes offer fun, hybrid playstyle and here comes the Marksman Focus.

I do not know where to even where to start here, but I have two main points:

  • Our oÌ”rÌ”kÌ” sharpshooter works best with guns that pump out as much dakka as possible. You do not require aim, it is statistics.
  • You loose buffs with movement. That causes a cascade of other problems, like potentially jeopardizing team coherency, inherently zero value during clutches and stationary playstyle to name a few.

The volley fire ult is also mediocre at best and it is not helping. Again, it kinda works, but the other two just offer more bang for the buck. I still try to wrap my head around the fact that gunlugger ogryn has a reload on ult, but not the sharpshooter veteran.

I am aware that any character that has too strong and easily sustainable ranged damage will trivialize the melee combat, which is crucial in any Tide game and I do not want that. I am just longing for a ranged-focused character that gives you a satisfying, yet challenging gunplay.

My idea for “pure” ranged vet for that would be either a proper sharpshooter with singular, powerful attacks requiring good aim or a heavy weapon support, having strong burst damage but serious drawbacks (f.e. immobile when firing etc.). Here we have a “guy in the middle” that works best when you constantly magdump an accatran or columnus into the horde horizon somewhere from the corner behind your teammates,

I am wondering, if that is just my feeling about this, or am I skewed by other shooter games?

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I find it really good and there’s a couple main points I disagree with

These 3 points are all related. You missed something crucial about the keystone.


This means your first and third point I disagree with. You DO require aim to make marksmans focus work. It requires ranged weakspot hits and kills to function properly. You do not lose buffs with movement unless you fail to keep up the weakspot hits. It never at any point motivates you to stand still.

The second point is more interconnected. You are correct in that the best Vet weps are those that put out lots of bullets, generally speaking, and especially for this playstyle. Those also gain the most benefit from having higher individual bullet damage, you’re more likely to hit a good breakpoint than with a slow gun like the Helbore that already hits oneshot breakpoints.
However, those weapons are also inaccurate and don’t let you get weakspot hits or kills very easily.
The solution? Here’s where I disagree with you saying volley fire does not help:

This is a huge deal on full auto weps like the infantry autogun. Absolutely massive benefit in handling and getting weakspot hits to the benefit of marksman’s focus. I sprint around all game and shoot with pinpoint accuracy and keep it stacked.

So all in all you have to see it as a whole. It is a very powerful keystone if you take an infantry autogun and aim for heads with exec stance. Pretty busted strong even. Even on a bolter it lets you hit some key breakpoints you can’t otherwise, even on Havoc 40 it remains relevant.
Exec stance notably lets you be more accurate which notably is a huge deal for Marksman’s Focus.

Having said all that, I think the keystone is just conceptually weird. It’s themed as a sniper keystone, but sniper weapons tend to benefit the least because mostly they don’t gain many relevant breakpoints from it. It’s not really that useful on a vigilant/headhunter autogun, nor on a helbore. Instead full auto weps make the most use of it. It’s strange, but that’s different from it being bad. It is definitely very limited design wise, only select builds benefit. This oddly goes against their stated goal for Vet which was making the keystones work for all weapons. The best improvement this keystone could get would be giving more reasons to use it on the actual sniper weapons. It’s definitely not undertuned though, and all it requires are changes that broaden how many weapons can benefit from it.

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Yeahhhh
they gave it a pretty hefty buff too, and yet I still find myself basically never using it.

It suffers from a litany of issues, I know one of the reasons I never jump on it is the fact I enjoy having ludicrously high toughness for maximum Iron Will gains, and so dropping 10% toughness DR or even more from the left side of the tree is just a lot easier than dropping anything else from the middle or right side of it, making the other keystones ALWAYs easier to hit. Never not gonna wanna ‘Bring it Down!’ for instance, so regardless of what build I do I always have access to Focus Target, and weapons specialist is often a point off, where as Marksman’s focus only gets that close when I’ve already decided on everything else I want and I happen to be able to take more points into the left tree.

But beyond that, the playstyle of it is just terrible. Like, it’s not even a bad damage bonus, 75-112.5% finesse damage bonus with a 10-15% reload speed buff is really good, especially when the the only other ‘competition’ is said Focus Target with 20-32% increase in damage for just high priority targets.

But dang man with Focus Target I just slap that ping on something I hate and it dies, I don’t gotta think about it to hard. With Weapon Specialist, I get a fun little mini game of popping heads with my ranged weapon before attacking fast and dodging far with my melee, alternating between the two and feeling good about it.

With Marksman’s focus I’m told to
stand still, crouch, walk very slowly. As you say, mag dump into the wave so my stacks don’t fall off, and cry if I I’m ever forced to dare swap away from my ranged weapon. On top of all that, it’s INSANELY punishing if you’re aim is even slightly off, as it only benifits your headshot and crit damage, while also only letting you actually move after a headshot or a crit. The seconds of movement are actually pretty generous too, but you better not have assumed that kill you just landed was a headshot kill without REALLY making sure, because if you don’t and try and sprint away from the enemies op there goes all of your stacks in .2 seconds better start mag dumping the wave again.

It just feels bad, it’s ‘mini game’ isn’t fun even with the efforts they made to make it more lenient, and on top of all that, it doesn’t warrant pushing all the way down the left side of the tree for it’s use when it will only buff your ranged weapon, only buff your head shots/crits, and requires so much point investment to be useful you can’t even think about doing any other cool things with the tree.

With Focus Target and Weapon Specialist I can easily just grab only the keystone and feel incredible about it, while having the option to grab more if I feel the points aren’t better spent in other parts of the tree. But with Marksman’s focus, you need basically every pip in it’s keystone to make it feel even close to functional, on top of perfect/borning gameplay, and even then you’re probably doing about as much if not less than that shout veteran that just marked the Monstrosity and mag dumped a boltgun.

WITH, all that in mind, I like your thinking, and I think I’ll posit a ‘solution’ of sorts.

  • Marksmans Focus stacks up like Focus Target, a passive gain of stacks over time (without Camouflage/that node is removed). Stacks now cap out at 15 (that node removed as well), at 7% ranged finesse bonus per stack. They stack lets say
1 per second, with crouching/crouch walking/standing resulting in them stacking once every 0.5 seconds, and temporarily pausing the next mechanic. (though numbers can be changed/tweaked if op, just mainly getting the idea across).

  • Firing your weapon consumes stacks of Marksmans Focus to amp up the damage based on the number of stacks. Getting ranged Weakspot/AND Crit kills results in stacks being gained (probably can leave it at 3), and they are no longer retained on hit/kill (I feel with the given passive gain this would make sense, but if the devs see this and somehow think differently, by all means can keep the timer in there still XD).

  • Extra nodes that exist now still exist, while above 10 stacks your RANGED weapons gain 10% rending (as with how it stacks now, just keeping that active permanently for a melee weapon seems a bit much
but could also be totally fine, so could be left the same in that case). Tunnel Vision can probably stay the same, though it will continued to not be clicked on but I’m not here to fix that really XD. And given the other two nodes where backed in, I’d probably make one additional node, likely something along the lines of ‘while above 10 stacks, gain 25% Toughness DR’ or something to that effect, to give a bit more survivability and give a ‘more often than not on’ passive to Marksman’s Focus even when you are required to go about meleeing things.

I think that would allow the keystone to be a bit more passive, while also allowing it to function insanely well for both large weapons and faster firing ones. The slower one’s get big beefy hits for longer, where as the faster firing ones can slay out quicker resulting in more fluctuating damage, in line with not letting them be ‘to busted’. Would allow the keystone to lean more into the family of empowering the slower hard hitting things too, while on can just pick up Focus Target with Redirect Fire if they just want an ‘always one’ lil bump to their damage.

Probably would require some tweaking verses taking exactly what I wrote here and putting it in, but I think it would be good!

(and yeah, Executioner’s Stance just needs the reload back, no idea why it was taken out when as you say, the Ogryns got to keep theres. Especially with how fast paced the game is now, it just feels awful doing a lightning fast swap into a mostly empty mag, especially with the ‘mag load’ animation still there. Think it would help the skill ‘find it’s own’, though a toughness DR buff while it’s active would be nice/helpful too).

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Thanks for a good and fleshed-out reply!

I think I was not clear enough. In general, I do not consider this keystone to be utter trash, I rather do not like the playstyle it forces you into. Feels
clunky? Contradictory in itself?

I can land decent amount a lot of headshots in my game, but what I’ve noticed with this keystone is, that on fast damnation games, you will:

  1. Clear area from enemies and build up the buff stacks with headshots.
  2. Move 20-30m to next area and loose all the stacks or try to spot some scattered, singular enemies, this is usually where you start “lagging” behind the team.
  3. Start the build-up again.

Horde breaks the cycle and can make MF shine, but again, just stay behind your team and blast something that fires a lot of ammo in shortest possible time at the “horde horizon” and see the stacks get to max in no time. You really do not need to be one of the guys getting 100k in Aimlabs at Gridshot for that. I would stay with my opinion here, that it does not require a lot of good aim, rather a good feel for positioning so you do not get downed out of the blue. Headshotting not aggroed enemies during map clear is easy anyway.

These 3 points are all related. You missed something crucial about the keystone.

I was not precise enough in my wording. What I had in mind, is that the volley fire is not fullfilling the role I imagine it to be. It improves weapon handling and gives you a big DPS boost (so it kinda works, as I have written), but also at the same time synergizes rather poorly with weapons that should value precision over fire rate, as you have also have rightfully pointed out. If anything, its strong boosts to recoil and fire rate scale best again with weapons that are have fast fire rates, i.e. accatrans or IAGs.
Additionaly, speaking from experience, it is nice to ult and see your character calmly whipping out a Hellbore, reloading it, checking the magazine and pouring himself a drink, while a crusher just raises his hammer above your head.

I’ve noticed that on weapons with low recoil, like Accatran lasguns, it is absolutely viable to skip it and go for the shout/infiltrate to actually give you a tool that is very strong when you need to clutch the game, as the marksman focus loses majority of it’s value the moment you need to start kiting and it is nice to have some strong defense tool to compensate.

On top of that, other two ults and their respective keystones have also very strong boosts to your survivability and utility, while still having good damage, convenient usage and still sport decent breakpoints. I remember that I was very sceptical of the tagging mechanics, but after playing with it a bit, I could not deny how strong the boosts are. Reginald was right :wink:

So all in all you have to see it as a whole. It is a very powerful keystone if you take an infantry autogun and aim for heads with exec stance.

And this is what buggers me the most. Sharpshooter with full-auto, high-capacity, infantry autogun. I mean the meme about Ork Snipers writes itself!

I think that this keystone was meant to synergize with some heavy support weapon like hellgun or backpack-fed LMG (vide the awesome art in the background of the talent tree) and in this situation it makes sense: offer mobility and defences for a burst of overwhelming firepower.

Edit below as I do not want to spam double posts, and just noticed another reply.
@ MixedLetters
Well what can I say, we feel quite similar about the keystone. I cannot judge though how to make it fell proper, it is also one of the reasons I started this discussion :wink:

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Probably, hopefully the announced Veteran update will include something to that effect, it’s seriously what he’s missing the most

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It’s very weapon dependent but I think it absolutely slaps on ghost laspistol. You literally just remove every ranged enemy from the game as well as most of the specials, with no ability for any ranged mob to counter fire you. Plus can be built for good boss damage too. You’ll remove ranged threats so quickly it has basically zero aggro dumping downside in practice. I never stop moving with this setup and maintain high MF stacks easily since any ranged weak spot hit pauses stack decay.

Ghost procs duck and dive (infinite deadshot in shootouts) desperado blessing, as well as reciprocity for masses of free crit chance. High hipfire accuracy means you can choose at will when you want to activate deadshot or preserve stamina. Executioner’s stance makes hipfire pinpoint accurate and also helps to hit breakpoints when MF stacks are lower.

I exclusively run it with long range assassin. Tunnel vision is also good since it gives a multiplier to your toughness gained through exhilarating takedown/confirmed kill, and can be a deadshot stamina refresher if you’re not going for duck and dive, but reciprocity is right next to it so you’re better grabbing both of those and forgoing tunnel vision. Camouflage and Chink in their Armour are both noob traps.

Helps to have a good frontliner but laspistol high mobility and high hipfire accuracy makes it one of the easiest guns to keep hitting headshots under pressure.

I think it’s fine for a Keystone to be kinda niche as long as its strong in that niche and to me MF absolutely is strong in its niche. Besides laspistol it’s also unambiguously great with IAG.

I wouldn’t complain if they made it so melee weak spot hits pause stack dropping too cause that’d be nice quality of life but I don’t think it truly needs anything (besides two aforementioned trap sub nodes being reworked).

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I think marksman focus is okay; the reason I never use it though is because then I can’t have weapons specialist lmao.

A lot of the problems with build variety I have in this game come from the fact that there’s clearly 1 keystone/aura/ability that is more impactful than everything else on most classes. Maybe marksman focus should be buffed a tiny bit. Yeah, it’s helpful but I never miss using it like weapons specialist, and like other people said it really pushes you into using certain weapons.

It used to be really terrible, after the buff it’s OK, but very weapon dependant. I think it still has absolutely terrible sub-keystones (standing still and toughness replenishment ones) and its name is kinda misleading since it’s not about being an actual Marksman lol

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