Broken map commentary

[JLB]

So this is a pretty large topic, but I’ll try to be concise.

The VO in this game is… in a pretty shoddy state across the board. It used to be really bad, now it’s just bad. Be prepared for a lot of things being stated as facts. I’m not a developer, but I am someone who’s unhealthily obsessed with Vermintide’s flavor dialogue, and since late 2015 I’ve been paying a lot of attention to how it works. What I’m putting here is a list of findings and suggestions based on my understanding of what level commentary should be like. If anyone out there has OCD to rival mine, then by all means, correct me.

There are two types of map commentary. Lines and dialogue. V1 only ever had lines, V2 has added dialogue and is struggling to make it work. Note that when I say dialogue, I mean full exchanges that happen on a specific level; V1 had dialogue, but it triggered irrespective of maps (safe for DLC packs). V1 has both map-irrespective conversations (which are completely dysfunctional at the moment) and map-bound dialogue.

That being said, this thread is primarily about lines.

The simple fact is that compared to V1, V2 is frankly horrible with these. Map lines played very consistently in the original, with the only exception being that one time fatfish broke the lines on every single small map (MtR, SR, etc) and never fixed them again. Mainline maps however? Like clockwork, even through special spawns and hordes attacking. Not even remotely the case here.

Furthermore, a lot of levels simply lack commentary for places that would absolutely be commented on in V1 - or, indeed, on the more privileged maps of V2. The map VO is simply unfinished, to this very day.

When lines do exist, they can easily be broken by things such as: the party being too far apart; a special spawning; a chaos warrior in the distance; a berzerker in the distance; an ult being used (this happens less now; they do however drown out all other sound); the planets being in the wrong alignment. When they don’t, they don’t. And they should.

Now, why should you care? If all you care about is your precious special callouts, balance and hats - then you shouldn’t. I’ll only rather hypocritically ask that you try to understand that flavor is important to some people, such as myself. I’ve played V1 for 800+ hours and V2 for 300+, so while I’m not one of the absolute nerd tier fanatics, I am in fact an actual player and I exist. I’m not the only one, either. Flavor is a tremendous part of the Warhammer world that V1 got right, and V2 got… less than right, in good part because so much of the world interaction is outright broken. People like me get as frustrated when we get denied conversations or comments that used to be plentiful in V1 as you do when a gutter runner spawns behind you with no warning, or when you’re hit through block. These things all make the game feel like an unfinished pre-beta with no quality pass having been done.

In the next posts, I’ll attach a list of all the map lines that exist in the base campaign, complete with which ones are broken and how.

[JLB]

Attached below are also my comments to specific ones. For ease of use, the legend is as follows:
*** - the line plays very rarely
(???) - the line does exist, but plays under very strange conditions
? - the line doesn’t exist, when it probably should
Vista - an eye-grabbing part of the level that’s definitely meant to wow you. V1 almost always attached comments to those, even if they weren’t always about the vista itself.
Landmark area - a key part of the map that is one of the first things you think of when it’s brought up. See above (not quite the same as vista, since those are often out-of-map areas)
Location text - the pop-up you get when entering a new part of the map, complete with sound. These would often, though not always, coincide with lines in V1, creating a sense of pace and presence.

A short version of how screwed up each level is, rating line quantity and consistency out of 10 (I ran out of ideas). QUAN denotes lines existing for places where they’d be needed, CONS denotes how reliably they play across the board. Most V1 levels are at a solid 8/9 in both:
RS - QUAN: 6/10 CONS: 3/10 < HAS NO DIALOGUES
COD - QUAN: 5/10 CONS: 3/10
HID - QUAN: 7/10 CONS: 5/10 < HAS NO DIALOGUES
HS - QUAN: 7/10 CONS: 4/10
AY - QUAN: 8/10 CONS: 5/10
TSB - QUAN: 2/10 CONS: 4/10 < TRASH FIRE ALERT + HAS NO DIALOGUES
FB - QUAN: 1/10 CONS: 5/10 < TRASH FIRE ALERT
ITN - QUAN: 2/10 CONS: 7/10 < TRASH FIRE ALERT + HAS NO DIALOGUES
ATG - QUAN: 6/10 CONS: 3/10
EIF - QUAN: 8/10 CONS: 6/10
FG - QUAN: 1/10 CONS: 3/10 < TRASH FIRE ALERT + HAS NO DIALOGUES
WC - QUAN: 9/10 CONS: 8/10
SKG - QUAN: 7/10 CONS: 5/10 < HAS NO DIALOGUES

I’ll probably add the Bogenhafen levels in a little latter. As it stands, they’re better across the board.

Righteous Stand

• Intro
  Plays consistently, but the dialogue consists of 2 lines. Most intros have 3.
• Town is ravaged ***
  Entering Woodworker’s Guild. Usually compares Helmgart to Ubersreik. Works every once in a blue moon, almost never palpably cancelled by anything.
• No one to help us ***
  Said at the rising street. Usually replaced/overridden by “this is the street”.
• Fort is breached
• Dead soldiers
• Arena?
  It seems off that the battleground is not commented on, seeing as it’s kind of a vista.
• Begin event
• Elevator here?
  Such events are typically called out. Particularly important here as you rarely defend near the actual gate.
• Ride elevator
• Elevator conversation?
  Elevators are for conversations. Just look back at Man the Ramparts. Just hook one of the level-independent conversations here - you managed it then.
• Go through barracks?
  Nothing is said once you enter the new locale, which is atypical for your VO design.
• Barracks ransacked ***
  Before the passage under the stairs, there’s a very rare chance the heroes will say there’s no supplies left to gather. Plays if it feels like it, doesn’t matter if it’s chaos or skaven or if there are specials/elites.
• Enter battlements?
  New locales are usually called out, not the case here. The battlements is where we spend half of this level.
• Helmgart vista
  Very fiddly to get to work. You have to walk by the right edge of the first section.
• Breach the gate + use the cannon
• Stormfiend corpse?
• Cannon ready
• Hit the wall
• Temple visible
• Axe Bite pass
  Same wonkiness as with the Helmgart vista.
• Dangerous terrain ***
  Spoken at the chunk of ground you cross between the battlements and the temple. It is indeed dangerous terrain, and it’s called out in 1/10 games.
• Roger massacre?
  The pre-temple battleground+vista seem like somebody is meant to comment on them. Always feels wrong when they don’t.
• Enter temple
• Prepare and ring
• The horde comes
• Halfway done
• Door open (???)
  …the door flew open? What door? It’s a gate. It didn’t fly open, it slid down. An obvious artifact of an older version of the level, I assume. The line makes no sense (especially as the heroes choose to comment on this as opposed to Sigmar personally smiting the remainders of the horde), so I’d honestly say its trigger should get gutted.
• Job done

Convocation of Decay

• Intro
  Fails to play in maybe 1 game out of 5.
• Where are the patients ***
  Set to play in the area with the beds. Usually doesn’t - seems likelier to play if populated with skaven.
• Trail of slime (???)
  That’s… regular old blood. Eveyrone speaks as if it’s the same kind of green stuff we followed in Garden of Morr. It’s blood. Not slime. Give it some stink lines, like the body piles on Halescourge, or gut the line.
• An apothecary station ***
  Spoken when you enter the book-filled area. Plays consistently enough, but I can’t shake the feeling that now they never talk about the healer’s tools table that’s just up ahead. I’m lumping these together as I can’t be sure if it isn’t the same line in an earlier spot - it used to almost never play, so it’s tough to be sure.
• Asylum cells
• They came through the sewers
  Spoken when approaching the hole. Not too rare, but fails to play about 20% of the time.
• Up the ladder (???)
  Of all the places… nobody even uses that damn ladder. Ever. Color my mind boggled. It’s unique, too, never spoken elsewhere.
• Bad feeling ***
  After getting up steps after the pointless ladder. Works half the time at best.
• Northlander rune
• Elevator conversation?
  See Righteous Stand. Silence in elevators is a sign something is wrong either with the VO team’s decision making, or the triggers.
• Seeing the puzzle door?
  The heroes don’t take the time to say that, oh yeah, this is a puzzle door. They arrive at the switches and instantly know that. It definitely feels like something is missing - most event catalysts are commented on, and the introductory door doesn’t count as it’s a distance away. It feels like the line exists, but never plays.
• Use the right switch
• Right switch used
• Wrong switch used
• Door open
• Nurgle infestation ***
  Spoken only if you move on the right side of the sewer, at an arbitrary point near the entry to the space on the right, where heals sometimes spawn. And even then, half the time at most.
• Nurgle plants ***
  This is said when you get to the hole to the old dump. Or, it isn’t, and the culprit seems to be spawn density. The bottom is almost always populated with chaos warriors, berzerkers, or other things that destroy this line’s chances at playing. If not that, then special spawns do, because it doesn’t matter who’s speaking, a special existing will almost always cut it off and occupy the trigger space for 5+ seconds.
• Into the hole ***
  Spoken directly before you enter said hole. This one is more temperamental and sometimes doesn’t work when nothing is interrupting it.
• The hole stinks ***
  By this point the chaos warrior callouts have refreshed and you’re probably attacked by 3 hordes, 5 leeches, 4 globadiers and a blightstormer, so I’ve heard this place commented on about three times out of a good hundred games.
• The mausoleum ***
  When you enter the crypt area. Rarely said, almost certainly due to chaos warriors/zerkers that populate the entrance, and clog up the triggers.
• Demon voices ***
  About a 50% chance that nobody says they’re hearing the sorcerers’ chanting, before you get to the ammo box.
• Demon ritual
• Stay in the circle
• Sorcerers 1, 2, 3 explode ***
  Doesn’t seem to be gameplay related. I’ve had all 3 get called out in incredibly intense fights, and none be spoken of in fights where nobody even really used any ults.
• Ritual is finished
• Olesya is calling

Hunger in the Dark

• Intro
• Down the ladder
• Follow the tracks
• The mine is a mess
• Use the cart
• Search for black powder ***
  When you get near the ladder up to the black powder area. Almost never plays. May have to do with the party typically being spaced out at this time.
• Someone hold on to the cart
• Runaway cart
  The trigger seems to have been moved from immediately after the cave-in caused by the cart, to after you cross the cave-in area. Probably best to restore the old. Unless these are two different ones and the first is now broken…
• Found the cart ***
  I recall them commenting on finding the cart before the darkness area. That was ages ago now…
• Haunted darkness ***
  Spoken when you get the Engelbrecht Junction text popup. May fail to play mostly because people either run around like headless chickens, or because this is where the game decides you’re not getting to play any more.
• The slope
• Runaway cart v2
  Spoken at a very strange point, usually a good few seconds after it’s gone and run away. Hordes break it sometimes.
• Plague bodies ***
  For being the justification for how they’re turning trolls into bile trolls, this one basically never plays. It’s meant to do so in the cave filled with skeletons, right before you jump down to the Old Troll Grounds.
• Majestic cave
• Cart must be around
  Spoken as you walk around the bend. Strange trigger…
• Found the altar
• Cart returns
• Slope again
• Hear the trolls
• Ring the bell
• Trolls go boom
• Job done

Halescourge

• Intro
  Sometimes gets cancelled by a chaos warrior ten miles away getting called out.
• Guildsmen’s lift
• Found the lift
• Poor ambush
  It seriously seems like you’re meant to hear skaven voices from down below. The same distant yelling sound that was used during the boat part of River Reik in V1? The heroes say they can hear the ambush… but they really can’t.
• Helmgart’s canals ***
  Said if you steer to the left near where the stairs lead down to the canals. Almost nobody ever goes there, and if they do, it plays less than half the time.
• Search the house
• Helmgart vista ***
  This line plays at an arbitrary point from when you jump down onto the rubble, to when you’re getting up the stairs. It’s one of the key vistas of this level so it definitely needs tightening.
• Canals again ***
  This is triggered when you cross the water on one of the three bridges. The trigger bridge seems to change from game to game, and sometimes none do so, anyway.
• Ground giving way
  Spoken at two points - either at the optional pickup spot behind a gate that’s before the canal bridges, or immediately before you enter the slope area.
• Avalanche
• Stinky town
  Triggered at the arch with hanging bodies.
• Helmgart is infested
• Helmgart is screwed ***
  The final crater vista immediately before the mansion. The high CW population in the area seems to be part of why this plays pretty much never.
• Halescourge’s mansion
• Reply to Halescourge
• Taunt Halescourge ***
  Every once in the bluest cheese moon of the Old World, Kruber or Bardin will reply to his yammering by telling him that he talks too much. It’s happened all of two times for me. Let’s just say lord interactability is low.
• Warn about attacks?
  Of all the 3 bosses, Halescourge is the one where you probably want the heroes telling each other to avoid the ghosts, to shoot/hit the flies and to not get hit by the vortex. As opposed to calling out a blightstormer when Halescourge channels it up…
• Halescourge dead ***
  Plays even rarer than Skarrik. That’s an accomplishment!
• Job done?
  The heroes don’t ever comment on how they’ve killed Halescourge and how that’s a good thing before entering the portal. Very out of sync with other levels.

Athel Yenlui

• Intro
• Away from civilization
  The trigger is a finnicky spot right before the big log on the right. If you go left, which nobody does anyway (nobody but me, I suppose), then it’ll fail to play. Until, one time, it’ll play at a later point… But I may be misremembering.
• Into the ravine ***
  The heroes used to tell you to enter the ravine before you get inside, either from below, or from above. Then it got moved to only when you’re in the actual ravine. Now it just never plays at all.
• Good ambush spot
• Entering forest?
  It’s a text popup location change, a vista and a new level locale. All these put together would always amount to a callout in V1, and sometimes even in V2 - one of the forest comments should be bound here.
• Waystone comment?
  In the beta, you’d consistently get mentions of the waystone before the tome, occasionally of the one before the cave, too. Right now there is no reaction to either.
• Multiple forest comments ***
  Played at absolutely random points of the level. If you stick to the left, you seem to guarantee getting none.
• Clan Fester cave
• Forest ‘maze’
  shatfark… this isn’t a maze. Not much you can change, but it’s just silly. It’s too obvious that this was meant to be a larger part of this level, the blatantly unfitting intro screen suggests as much.
• Waystone comment ***
  The one waystone anyone notices is before the ruins. about 30% of the time, that is. It’s not hordes or CW’s either.
• Don’t drop down ***
  This used to play on the bend that takes you to the ruins. It never does anymore, and honestly, that should be a thing. The line made no sense. As if anyone would actually try to jump down there??
• Seeing the ruins
• Ruins comment v2 ***
  This happens in front of the arch that gives you the view of the halfway point of no return. The spot is a bit too specific, so some routes will defnitely deny you this line.
• Can’t stay around ***
  The infamous microsoft sam comment spot, this is after you get up the steps past the point of no return. I’ve heard anyone say anything here twice since release. When you bring this back, try to not bring Sam back as well, please.
• Giant tree
• Temple hullabaloo
• Coming on to temple?
  It feels like a line is lacking for when you see a huge arch get torn away by the magic.
• Seeing the arena ***
  The heroes almost never say that this is where they should fix the magic thingamajig.
• Use the crystals (???)
  This line plays every time… at the wrong spot. You always go clockwise, left to right. This line, clearly meant to be played at the FIRST crystal you use, is played at the one you’d almost certainly use LAST. Just move the trigger, please.
• Damn racket
• Crystals 1, 2 feel good
• Find another crystal
• Job is done

Screaming Bell

• Intro
• See the bell (???)
  Everyone but Kruber has this line, but it’s hilariously badly implemented. You’ll actually never get it in normal gameplay, because the intro’s length overrides it. It’s spoken when you stand near the railing after ascending through the building you start in… which is when the third line in the intro is only halfway done. Somebody has to go AFK for you to stand a chance at hearing it. To make it even better, you actually CAN’T see the bell from there!
• Rain ***
  Overly specific place to trigger. The beginning of the level has way too many paths, so you’ll almost never hear this. Only Saltzpyre and Bardin seem to talk about it, too. You have a chance of hearing it if you go between the houses down the path that looks straight at the gate.
• Statue and street?
  Another landmark area that’d certainly get commented on somehow in V1. The statue, the roads, the huge gate, it’s a large mood setting vista, that is completely ignored. It’s going to be a common trend on this level.
• Poor quarter ***
  Only Bardin and Saltzpyre comment on this, and this is another one that you’ll never hear in normal gameplay, as nobody goes down the actual street, instead cutting through the small yard. It’s spoken when you pass the entrance to the yard, past the burning shacks.
• Blacksmith?
  The blacksmith’s building seems like a place that’d receive a comment for level pacing purposes.
• Rooftops (???)
  Another one into the bundle of questionable lines. If you take the rooftops, then before jumping off the first one, the heroes (Kruber, Bardin or Saltzpyre) will say that they have to take the rooftops because the streets aren’t viable. Not only does it almost never play… but you can actually take the streets, which almost everybody does.
• Market?
  Yet another landmark flavor filled area complete with location text pop-up that’s ignored. This one is a glaring omission, it definitely needs to be commented on.
• Rich quarter ***
  These lines are said near the statue above the marketplace. Only Bardin and Saltzpyre seem to have any, though I distantly remember Kruber having something to say too.
• Bell in the distance
  When you get past the bend that takes you to the third tome location. I’m pretty sure you can’t see the bell, though…
• Huge thinking statue?
  Dunkeldenker Platz is yet another mind-boggling absence in the level commentary. See marketplace and rain statue.
• Stairs ***
  Bardin, Kruber and Saltzpyre might comment on how the stairs are stupid long. Sometimes.
• Helmgart in ruins ***
  Overly picky trigger line - you have to walk to the edge of the small alcove where potions sometimes spawn, halfway through getting up the stairs. Only Saltzpyre seems to say anything.
• See the bell ***
  Gets denied by a lot of possible spawns and T-tags.
• Break supports?
  You’re never told to break the supports, which seems out of order for how events are usually handled with regard to commentary.
• Rats angry
  Referencing a mechanic that got removed, but it can get a pass.
• Bell down
• The rats want revenge ***
  Almost never spoken shortly before Roger shows up.
• Escape
  Seems to be dominated by Saltzpyre.
• Seeing the bell again?
  You pass the bell on your way back. It seems criminal that no one leaves a remark of any kind.
• Job done?
  You enter the portal with no victory quip.

Fort Brax

• Intro ***
  The intro to this level only ever seem to involve Kruber, Bardin and Saltzpyre, and plays pretty much never. It’s totally arbitrary, there’s no rhyme or logic to it.
• Brax locale?
  Nothing is said as you’re navigating the rocks. Level based conversations trigger here more often than not, but there’s only a few, and they’ve a good chance of breaking.
• Split paths?
  For all the stairs-go-uppery, your attention is never pointed to the fact that the level can proceed in one of two directions. Look back at Khazid Kro, you would be told if you’re going up or down. The same should apply here.
• Siege from a distance?
  It definitely feels wrong when nobody says anything as they see the glimpse of the siege and the destroyed supply cart on top of it all.
• Brax still holds ***
  Plays only if you go the longer route, going up. Not only is that something no one does anymore now that there’s a quicker, more direct path, but it would almost always fail to play, despite the siege being this level’s key vista. I’d like to blame chaos warriors on this, but it seems to break even if it’s a Skaven section, possibly because of specials spawning.
• Follow the river, find the passage ***
  Used to be consistently played as you go around the toppled caravan. Not so much anymore.
• Cruddy passage
  This does get cut out now and again, it’s meant to trigger as you go through the place from the loadscreen.
• Split paths?
  Once again, your attention isn’t pointed to how sometimes you go left and sometimes you go right.
• Siege comments?
  The cannonfire should probably be mentioned at least once before the heroes say it’s out. Not like you can talk about the locale’s exciting… uh… rocks…
• Cannons have stopped
• Into the underground?
  Only plays if the game gave you the straight (left hand) path, and even then, I can’t recall the last time it didn’t fail to play - must have been over a month ago. The underground with the 2nd grim is in fact the hidden passage.
• Defenders are struggling
• Try us on
• Plague projectiles
  The heroes mention plague rain once they jump down into the event area, but it’s… a little scarce.
• Search the courtyard ***
  The fort locale gets commented on maybe once every ten games.
• Use the cannon
• Boom 1
• Use the cannon again
• Boom 2
• Out of cannonballs
• Use the cannon again
• Final boom
• Good job
• Job done?
  You once again enter the portal with no congratulations.

Into the Nest

• Intro
• Bad barricades (???)
  Same deal as the bell line from TSB, only it’s even worse - you will NEVER be done talking by when you get to the barricades. If you hang around the starting patch of ground for 40 seconds, then you’ll get to hear the heroes say how bad skaven defences are.
• The lighting still works
  Gets broken if the party is too far apart.
• KGnol vista
• Comment on bridge?
  The bridge with the mine carts seems like a place to say something interesting, especially as it’s right in the middle between two sparse comments.
• Comment on corridors?
  Same here. Probably not both.
• Adjust water wheels
• Wheels adjusted
• The foundry ***
  One of this level’s main primary vistas, it’s also a dense spawn point and often has a boss. That said, the few times it is called out, it can easily be, say, during a boss fight. Makes sense! Perhaps it’s because the party is almost always split by elevation.
• Skaven city
  Fails to play every now and again. Seems like party separation in here as well…
• Skaven marketplace?
  The skaven city in general has no comments to speak of. The hub for the branching paths you enter soon after dropping down into it seems like a good spot.
• Roger pen?
  The pens are a very unique location, they have unique sound effects, and in a rare comment Sienna will mention that they went through them on their way to the warlord (spoken when you get to the warlord zone)… but there are no lines for them. That’s an obvious omission
• Black Fur Bridge?
  Another key point that’s between two comments that are very far apart. Being the prime location for sights of the city, it’s a noticeable absence.
• Warlord is nearby
• Reply to warlord?
  Skarrik gets completely ignored by heroes, even Halescourge has it better. Yikes!
• Call out attacks?
  It’d be really nice to know that this wordfilter rat blocks your attacks upfront and slashes like mad. In general, parity between bosses would be nice. Bodvarr gets everything called out.
• Warlord is dead ***
  Works maybe 3 times out of 10.
• Take the liftng platform
  Also a frequent cut-off, but not quite enough. May be caused by dead party members.
• Time to leave
• Job done

(cont’d in post 3)

[JLB]

Against the Grain

• Intro
• Over the fence
• First farm
  Cut off 20% of the time.
• No one left to save ***
  Only spoken if you move by the cheese shed on the right. Still gets easily cut out by spawns.
• Better move on ***
  When you reach the jump-over cart. Highly inconsistent, likely also due to spawns.
• Follow the road/slavery is bad ***
  Seems to be tied to a specific point in the open area with the tree, one that is placed such as that you run no chance of actually triggering it unless you’re spread out.
• The orchard ***
  After jumping over the barricade, you’re probably dealing with lots of CW’s, so this may be why you almost never hear it.
• The cider press?
  I never understood why the utter massacre inside the grim house is not remarked on. I mean… yikes… Seriously, having the heroes not say something when they see this takes away from the effect.
• Go through the barn
• Gate is locked, find key ***
• Comment on monster?
  How DID a monster come to be trapped inside? Feels like something that’d get a mention, perhaps after it’s dead.
• Comment on massacre?
  See the cider press. It’s gruesome inside the barn, and it feels like a reaction is absent.
• Get to morgensloft next?
  Once you leave the barn/jump over the stone wall, it feels like you’re meant to say that you’re moving on and searching for Morgensloft. The entire third tome area however lacks any environmental commentary.
• Closing in on morgensloft ***
  Decides not to play about 75% of the time.
• Time for saving
• Comment on opening cages?
  Seriously, what the wordfilter is up with the peasants. Can the heroes at least justify what the heck is happening? Put some teleport particles around them or something, it’s as lore friendly as what we’re doing anyway…
• More comments throughout the event, one after each building?
• All prisoners saved
• Job done?
  Yet again, you get to the portal with no summary of your good work.

Empire in Flames

• Intro
• Vista comment from the old demo?
  Unlike the bad barricade or the bell comments from ITN or TSB, this one never overlaps with the intro. You’re meant to say something when you see Ussingen’s gate in the distance, and indeed, those lines exist. Look up the reveal gameplay, Kruber had a line for it. An obvious broken trigger.
• Caravan
• Gates opened
• Can’t go further (???)
  For some reason there’s a special line for if you walk up to the big gates surrounded by rubble. I’m… not sure why anyone’d go there. Waste of effort. Can’t it be repurposed elsewhere?
• City is a mess (2 spots)
  Said on the left and on the right of the first tome area.
• Smoke
• Manor isn’t here
• Find a way through
  This plays when you enter the town square. It seems to be why you actually never get to comment on how effed up the town square itself is?
• Town square ***
• Go through cellar
• Untouched wine
• Manor visible
• Shame about Ussingen
• Can’t go through the gate
  Only plays if you walk right up to the manor’s gate.
• Rich quarter intact
• Get to work ***
  Meant to play when you near the dropdown onto manor grounds. Never actually does so - I remember 3 instances at most. One pretty recent, though.
• Find black powder at the mining emporium?
  This one is unique. Now, the line is sorely missing, as it at least contextualizes the area - but it does exist. I’ve seen it, once, in the closed beta. Only the subtitle came up for a line Kruber would say, with no line actually playing. I’ve seen no signs of it since then.
• Give it a shove
• Big boom
• Time to get out ***
• Pick up the pace
  This is said shortly after you pass a stagecoach in the initial stretch of street after escaping the manor grounds.
• Job done ***
  Triggered near where the burned out ground is replaced by the grass - almost never.

Festering Grounds

• Intro
• Into the ruins?
  The locale switch is never commented on. It definitely seems like there’s meant to be a line at Ragnhild the Red’s Hideout.
• Bandit nest ***
  When you get deeper into the bandit nest, in the part with the two lines separated by a wall, you’ll have it confirmed that this is a bandit hideout. As of late it plays far, far more frequently, but still, not always.
• Comment on locale?
  The open air location after you get past the rope bridge is a change of locale that seems like it’d be remarked on.
• Comment on cave?
  The cave is a landmark area of this level, and it’s been totally ignored since I remember playing it for the first time.
• Descend ***
  For some strange reason, there are special lines for telling you to climb down the rocks after the second tome location. They also hardly ever play.
• River Lohner spoke of ***
  Hugging the right side after you descend can sometimes get the heroes to say that this is a river Lohner told them to navigate around. But usually it won’t.
• Strong current
  Always plays on the bridge. Remarkable for a level as mangled as FG!
• Skaven cave-in
  Hidden away in the cave after the river, you have to stick to the left to find a skaven buried under rubble. Sometimes Kruber, Bardin or Saltzpyre will remark on it. It’s very out of the way, so it seems reasonable to move it further ahead, to a very similar cave-in in the stinky valley.
• Stinky valley ***
  Triggered when you make the turn around to start going through the vista valley, it almost always gets denied by the local chaos warriors. Or nothing at all.
• Split paths?
• Monolith corruption ***
  An incredibly rare line spoken when you go down either of the two split paths, when you’re surrounded by the plague corpses. Doesn’t seem to have a reason for not playing.
• Rotblood campground?
  The campground is recognizable enough to be put on the loadscreen, and it is unique enough in this level, so it feels wrong for it not to be called out in any way. That said, if the other two previous lines actually play, it won’t be a major loss.
• Comment on forest?
  The forest seems like a place for some penultimate level based comments, and I swear I once heard somebody try to talk there. However, I can’t be sure if it wasn’t the game’s ambient conversations trying to poke through, since it was so long ago.
• Enter the stinky hole?
  This particular stinky plant-infested hole complete with mound of desecrated bodies doesn’t even get the rare comment its sibling on COD gets.
• Monolith visible, pop buboes
  Or call out the ammo box instead.
• Pop more buboes
• Get the heck out
• Job done?
  No portal congratulations again.

The War Camp

• Intro
• Narrow ravine
• Rotbloods like the swamp (???)
  Seems like a new line, set between the hermit’s nest and the drop-down. I don’t mind oversaturation when it comes to lines that actually play, but I think it’d be more economical to place it a little later, maybe deeper into Froschdorf. It’s between two functional triggers at the moment.
• Hermit’s nest
• Split paths
• Abandoned village
  One of the less reliable triggers, but it still plays more often than not.
• Smelly northlanders
  Spoken near the first hut you find after leaving Froschdorf. About as reliable as the village comment.
• Camp visible
• The witch’s tree
• Past one row of walls
• Take the ram
• Cursed gate ***
  The berzerkers can cause the gates not to get remarked on, which typically happens as the ram gets near the row of spikes.
• Use the ram
• Get through and find Bodvarr ***
  Very rarely said after you get past the welcoming party.
• Come out, champion ***
  Spoken a little later with more consistency as of late.
• Vaardkase?
  One of this level’s landmarks, I’m quite sure it was even in the trailers. It seems wrong not to say anything here, since it seems to be where the champion would usually reside.
• It’s an arena
• Reply to Bodvarr
• Attack callouts
• Reply to taunts
  Bodvarr’s fight puts the other two to shame. Every line seems to work quite consistently, even if there are some hiccups and several lines don’t logically connect. Bardin even has his one single Slayer related line in the base game here! Which he can say as RV and IB, too, because quality.
• Bodvarr dead
• Get out
• Lohner’s secret is kept
• Job done

Skittergate

• Intro !!!*********!!!
  A schroedinger’s intro, to be sure. I’ve heard it all of 3 times - once immediately after a patch that ‘added more lines’, once on j_sat’s stream, and once again many many many many games later. And trust me, I get Skittergate as often as anyone else does. It is hilarious how broken this trigger is.
• Lifting platform
• Helmgart destruction
• No guards because of infighting ***
  Meant to play as you descend to the wooden entrance with the skaven symbol. Plays maybe 1 time out of 10.
• Skittergate visible
• Pull the lever
• Rasknitt isn’t here
• Absolute madmen
• We actually did it ***
  The screwed up way dialogue is handled here means this’ll likely get broken by heroes thinking they’re alone (as you’re transported to the other side of the map one by one) and the customary quadruple assassinpackmaster spawn that welcomes you in Norsca.
• Norsca ***
  Remarking on Norsca is also very rare, and unlikely to do with enemies.
• Avoid the camp
• Find the gatekeeper and the keystaff
• Olesya’s path through the docks
  You’d think they’d talk about the aurora borealis, but this works too. Makes you look at the terrible clipping and pop-in/pop-out of the docks in the distance, so that’s awareness of shatfark’s ‘optimization’!
• Comment on caves?
• Comment on shipwrecks?
  If not the caves, then the shipwrecks definitely seem an interesting enough location for somebody to speak up. By all accounts this is something that’d have a reaction, if I know anything about shatfark’s level commentary decisions.
• Northlander ships (???)
  Once you get to the part of the docks with the ammo box and the supplies, soon before reaching the gatekeeper, if you walk all the way toward an always-empty box, the heroes will remark on Northlander ships. Nobody ever goes there. Why?..
• Can’t slow down
• Encroaching on gatekeeper
• Taunting gatekeeper (???)
  They speak as if he’s taunting them. Naglfahr is completely mute. Pls…
• Comment on rest of camp?
  As you spend a good 3-5 minutes in the following part of the camp, it seems reasonable that at least something can be said at some point. It’s a major part of the level, if not visually, then gameplay-wise, as here you’re given awful ground to fight on, set back with supplies you need to go out of your way to find.
• Use the keystaff
• Break the regulators
• Time to leave
• Absolute madmen v2.0
  Spoken after you jump down from the final supply stash. I’ve been lucky to get it consistently enough, but it’s likely a needlessly fiddly trigger.
• We made it ***
  Once again, the why-am-I-alone lines and the ult lines people use to get to the end closer will almost always break the comment on returning through the gate.
• Reply to Rasknitt
  It may just be my luck, but it’s always Kerillian with the same line each time.
• Reply to taunts
• Call out attacks
• Killed Rasknitt
• Get out?
  Seeing how things are falling apart, it seems strange you’re not told to leg it to a portal. It takes away from the sense of triumphant urgency.
• Skittergate goes boom
• Portal on the rocks

[KaizenDK]

Good points all around. It’s nice to see people to put this much work in to diagnosing the errors.

But I struggle to see the relevance of this thread in regards to “Big Balance BETA - Bugs and Feedback”

Balance feedback, and bug reporting associated with the beta patch.
Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding something.

[JLB]

Oh. I had the wrong forum open, again. That’s the second time now. You really shouldn’t carry over post progress once you leave the forum you were in… It’s convenient but also unintuitive.

I’ll flag this to get moved. For now I guess we can pretend it makes sense to put this here because most of my research was done in the current version.

[JLB]

Bump w/ the SoB levels before this is locked.

Also cleaned up my main posts, some italics were missing.

Summary of the quality for both:

TP - QUAN: 6/10 CONS: 9/10
TB - QUAN: 8/10 CONS: 7/10

Both are a major improvement over the main game and, uniquely, feature career differentiation in several replies across either map. Still nowhere near enough, but they EXIST. Which is something that has to multiply greatly and spill into the main game as well.

The Pit

• Intro
  Trigger recently moved a few steps back. Fails to trigger occasionally, likely due to CWs in proximity.
• Climb the ladder (???)
• The warehouses (???)
  There are special lines for going to the left and avoiding the grate entrance. The (???) signifies that no one actually goes up there since then you msis supplies. Every time me and my co-op partner had to force it
• The Pit
• The Pit stinks
  Admittedly hard to recall where this plays. Seems like a closed gate near an incline that leads to the grim bridge.
• The Pit is really bad
  Totally no idea where this plays, but it’s definitely before you reach The Rock.
• Where is the hideout (???)
  The heroes start wondering where the Black Hook are… right in front of a building marked with Black Hook signs all over. Also, the Black Hook are then completely forgotten. I just don’t get it, honestly.
• Bad feeling about grain
• Steinhager crest
• Burn it all down
• Prepare for a fight
• Bar the windows
• Escape
• It’s already nighttime?
  The Pit changing times of day as you progress is a huge visual draw to the level, but somehow the vista upon leaving the runaway event is never commented on. This can’t be anything but a broken trigger, I can’t imagine there is no commentary for this.
• Find a way out of the Pit?
• The bridge?
  The entire area thereafter is completely devoid of commentary. Giving you your next objective is something that’s almost always done on levels that are properly thought out. Notably, we should probably learn that we didn’t quite accomplish our goal and that our plans have changed BEFORE we get to the portal. The Black Hook disappear and we just leave after burning some grain - it’s a bit messy.
• The gunship?
• Hurry up?
  The finale also reeks of DotR-itis, where a cool setpiece (that is mechanically actually very simple) is totally ignored when it definitely shouldn’t be. It feels wrong.
• Job done

The Blightreaper

• Intro
  Sometimes fails to play for absolutely no detectable reason. Party separation doesn’t matter.
• Into the bowels
• Take the torch
• Light the brazier
• The way is blocked
• Not moving fast enough
• Begin event (???)
  Marking this with ???'s because this is one of the very, very, very few places in the DLC maps where career specific replies exist… And they’re incredibly rare, too. Shrug.
• Three-legged skeleton ***
  When you enter the first grim room. Plays very, very rarely - likely due to party separation or combat, yet it still managed to play for a split party now and again.
• Out into the city ***
  The line spoken after you get a short distance up the stairs out of the sewer plays… almost never. It has nothing to do with the hordes or with player distance.
• The square with the bar ***
  I recall the tables with the drinks being commented on… once. Just once. My memory may be faulty. It feels as if this line is so broken it may not even exist - or it may actually not exist.
• Bogenhafen still celebrates
• Bogenhafen is ungrateful
• Kraussman isn’t there
• Found Kraussman
• Where is the Blightreaper
• Messy sanctum
• Pull switches
• Switch 1, 2, 3, 4 done
• Approaching Blightreaper
• Job done?
  Nobody says anything after you’ve grabbed the sword. It seems a little anticlimactic… just like the entire finale of this map, honestly.