Prize Bounty is important for Repeater Pistol and good for Volley crossbow.
Cruel Fortune is good for Crossbow, reduced cooldown allow you to be better prepared for specials.
If suggested changes would be implemented, I would used Inspired shot talent with Hunter trait on BoP or Crossbow, or with Crossbow with Conservative Shooter.
Lol ever had feeling this is a problem? What?
Hunter gives you [power vs armour type], so thats not like you crit on sv and wreck chaos patrol after that, not even close. And only one career have guaranteed crit is BH.
And Barrage lasts 5 seconds? You shooting something 5 times, then getting in close range to deal that 1 heavy with 25% more power? Like really? This is a plan? Better stay and shoot more.
And what you want to fix, if it clearly says “gives power”. Not like “your ranged power increased” or smth
I didn’t say it was a problem, nor was I complaining about it. I meant it didn’t make sense. Your assessment is that they are not practical or helpful, but it doesn’t deny the fact that I still now, have a melee buff.
If I crit on a SV, why wouldn’t I benefit from killing additional SV in a patrol? If I crit on a SV and have to fight anything else, am I hindered? I still get a buff icon regardless.
If I have a buff that lasts 5 seconds, you say it’s inefficient for me to go into melee because of the short duration… by that definition, i should stop shouting on Merc/Witch Hunter or stop using ults on Zealot/FK/Slayer, because its inefficient.
The buff is there when it shouldn’t. Does it hinder me? No. Can it be helpful? Probably. I never once said any of my tactics relied on this. If this doesn’t get removed, oh well, didn’t bother me any. It just never made any sense.
What do you mean by that? If you crit on sv, you will gain 25% power vs ARMOURED, which are CW, SV, Gunner, Warpfire. You not gonna get power vs MONSTER or INFANTRY, or BERSERKS.
Why are you so sure? Is there any confirmation from developers? Is description of those buffs says clearly, that melee power shouldnt be buffed? Is there even such a thing as “melee power” and “ranged power” in the whole game?
Just as your words.
I’m baffled at why there is any confusion here…I know the game mechanics, your reply correlates to nothing I said.
…yessssssss… as a matter of fact… It’s the whole basis of what didn’t make sense to me.
It’s almost as if you don’t know anything about the game mechanics…
I don’t even…What are you even getting at? Are you just being a brainless troll? I had thought your other posts had more intellect than this.
BH had mechanics that allowed him to regain ammo through other means, and people abused the living-tits out of it - in fact the BH ammo regen was one of the biggest bugbears people complained about prior to the grand-ranged-meta-nerf™ and as such his ability to regenerate ammo from up his own marmite fritter was removed.
BH now means you need to have a degree of consideration as to what you’re going to do with your shots. Being fairly reckless will always leave you with little or no ammo and making sure you keep your ammo should be something that is a distinctive part of the BH playstyle. Memorising often-hidden ammo caches and knowing when you can unleash a load of shots as there’s ammo just around the corner is also part of the play style.
I think BH is just fine, with clever use of the ammo he is a very powerful glass-cannon and can provide boss- burst-damage .
In all honesty, I find BH the most balanced (ranged-focused) character ammo-wise. If you use your assets tactically and sensibly, you can fire away throughout the map and never need an ammo pickup, and that’s with a single weapon Trait or a Talent. Using both, can get you on the positive, but not by huge amounts, allowing you a lot more freedom with ammo use but still requiring some preparation and thought.
RV comes second: By default, he can return some ammo, and (on Legend, where enough Specials spawn) can stay neutral or even occasionally gain some with that alone. Or he can invest something, and either get infinite ammo through his passive and a Trait (depending on weapon), keep himself and at least one friend topped off completely if investing on a Talent and fighting sensibly, or go hog wild with guns if investing heavily on ammo gain.
Huntsman instead can always stay ammo neutral, even without any investment (well, providing you’re good enough with headshots, and that’s not that hard), or with some investment, can easily fluctuate between empty or nearly so and full ammo between one horde and the next. With investment, he can gain huge amounts of ammo, but at least that takes some effort and skill.
And then there’s Waystalker, who doesn’t get any ammo regen by default (like BH) but whose options are (in practice, at least) completely passive, and quite strong to boot. Either of her Talent options can keep her topped off by itself, and with Vaul’s Quiver doesn’t even need to particularly limit her shooting. As long as I keep an eye on the ammo, I can blast away all map, at least at moderate pace, and only run out of ammo during especially intense situation when purposefully spamming arrows. And as anyone else, she can add the Traits to that.
So I don’t think the problem lies with Scrounger (which actually feels balanced nowadays) or BH’s options (which are still effective, and not that limited), but the huge effectiveness with which Waystalker and Huntsman (especially the former) can gain ammunition. Yes, the nerf that was done to Scrounger in the Big Balance pass did hit BH hard (together with the other changes targeting him specifically), but he can still use the Trait to his advantage very effectively. Also, the more melee-focused Careers cannot abuse the Trait anymore.
And as for effective Trait limitations, they are there for everyone. Only a few weapons can get actual effective use out of Barrage or Hunter (and Hunter is actually a pretty popular component for a BH build), and the effectiveness of Scrounger and Conservative Shooter depend a lot on the weapon (and somewhat on Career, especially for Scrounger). The others are practically never worth it as is.
Also, without using Talents (in which BH actually does have an ammo retention option, as others did point out, and an effective one at that) only Bardin has a slight advantage. In fact, without considering Talents, BH can get a lot better usage out of Scrounger as he has guaranteed activations for it.
And as a final note, I think that’s it’s completely acceptable that different characters rely on different aspects of their build more or less. It’s fine that soem need to rely on Traits for an effective build, while others can rely on their Talents to define their actions. It just means that you have wider option in the other aspect.
I believe this is the problem of some sort. The point is that every other career can pick for example hunter trait and be fine - even if they lose 70% of their ammo they all have means to replenish it (sienna can just vent, elf can regen it pretty quick, dwarf get full pouch after next pack of specials and kruber can find a CW or just ult into the wave spamming light shots to the heads), while Saltzpyre at best will be shooting once in 10 seconds to preserve his 30% ammo before he gets to the box. The trick is that he have absolutely no way of gaining ammo outside of scrounger. If you pick hunter - ye are screwed, can’t even utilise it because the more you shoot the more ammo you lose and you can’t afford that. The ammo gain with scrounger is more than enough but this just kills the variety of ranged weapons traits. I can’t use hunter or resourceful because I’ll just run out of ammo and that’ll be it for me.
I think there’s a misconception that “because others are capable of taking additional ammo generation means that characters who can’t are at a disadvantage.” I agree that it is a different playstyle, for sure, but I’m hardly conservative with my ammunition on Waystalker and I only ever take ammo regeneration talents on her when I’m using a hagbane. Most times I wield a longbow with Conservative Shooter and I never refill on ammo throughout most levels; I reserve it for the Brace of Pistols Witch-Hunter Captain or the hip-fire Handgun Footknight.
The key to ensuring you always have ammo is to use it only when you need to; take Conservative Shooter and remove all armored units in your way while stuffing every special you see and you’ll never run out on your crossbow/handgun! That just means more ammo for those folks who don’t have a weapon that can dependably land a headshot.
Uhh…why is it a misconception may I ask? It’s only fair to get some way to restore ammo with your talents when you are playing ranged career, using your logic I can use conservative on my FK and feel completely fine, but this is not making FK a ranged career.
And yes, you are saying that I should pick a trait on a weapon for ammo sustain, missing the whole point of the post.
Forgive me; allow me to reform my argument!
The reason I suggest Conservative Shooter is that it is the ultimate “room-clearer” trait. Once taken, there is generally a member of the team who is capable of dispatching every Storm-Vermin or special that you encounter at a distance without losing out on almost any ammunition. This character should not be shooting into a horde or spamming shot at CWs. Conservative Shooter is also available to all characters who would need ammunition, so there’s no talent discrepancy.
However, this should not devalue melee. If you can reach it and safely deal with it in melee, there is little-to-no reason to use a ranged weapon. Kill it with melee and save yourself the ammunition!
Basically, the round of it is that you don’t need a ton of ammo generation on everyone; any one player should be able to get through a mission without consuming more than 150% of their starting ammunition pool unless you are going somewhat slowly. In most missions I won’t take an ammunition pouch or touch an ammunition box, but my team as a whole will consume 3-5 pouches total.
If a Bounty Hunter shows up and is struggling for ammunition on his Repeater Pistol when I’m not struggling for ammunition on hip-fire Handgun Mercenary Kruber, there’s something weird going on. The number of times you will need a ranged weapon throughout a mission is many, but not so many that you will run out of ammunition. 1-2 shots can resolve almost every situation where a ranged weapon is needed. Most of the time, you should allow 1-2 people to hammer those long-ranged specials and conserve yourself for when they can’t or when you can flood the room with damage
As said above, I use conservative shooter on nearly every class minus Sienna obviously. There’s a few builds where I will use barrage or scrounger. But conservative shooter is my go too since I mainly play WS and you need to head shot with longbow to be able to 1 shot SV and specials. I guess that’s why I have zero issue on huntsman… But yea, BH should be fine with scrounger. I run BoP Bounty hunter and don’t have any ammo issues?
I haven’t used scrounger once since the BH ammo nerf and I never struggle with ammo at all. The only times I actually run out, is when running hypertwitch, because of the huge amounts of specials and bosses. The only thing wrong with BH is the shotgun part of his ultimate being completely worthless.
Couldnt agreed more. Yes indeed bounty hunter only have an way to regen ammunition over time thus in terms of long-run scrouger is must. Guaranteed crit every 10 seconds are quite strong but not so viable. Let dear bounty able to gain ammo with crit by default would be a great way to fix him.
i must say the scrouger is a must on him. i wish i can use hunter, barage and maybe (resourceful sharpshooter just to tray) but in the end u always end up with 0 ammo and pray on sigma for ammo box behind the corner.
i did tray BoP and inspired shot talent is working yeah but the micro manage it kills you… kill one rat melee swap QQ shoot and bc of small pellet(update) some time u miss.
AND some time if u miss… you can miss the QQ to pop go down just because of micro manage ammo.
then take waystalker or ranger vet. huntsman and u never have ammo problems and u dont need to micro manage ur ammo.
i did have fun i did manage my ammo(never go below 6-8ammo) but ONE mistake, one QQ-swap weapon and u are dead. and when u play high ping games COMONE u know ur fate if u qq a lot(servers plis?)
so yeah i want on him a passive skill scrouger or whatever to make him gain ammo with out scrouger weapon trait
Huntsman has the worst ammo recovery, you must hit heads or pray for a crit (luck or skill are needed). While, as BH, you have a guaranteed crit, so guaranteed ammo.
Balance… BBB didnt really hit WS at all. You just have ammo. Ypu either not spammimg it and regen over time, or you spam and regen with both ultimate cast/boss kill/regen when you run twitch or smth.
In that case you can say waystalker is fine, if I wish, I can play safe mode and make my friends carry me, cause I have ultimate to gain temp health if I need to.
Or I can run full pepega and never actually pull out my melee weapon if I wish. Even tho Elf have some good ones with both hordclear, AP and mobility.
Same with Pyro. Esp if you got Merc/WHC or both on team, you can vent sh!t out of that fireball and just faceroll through everything. The only problems is armoured specials, but sure you can manage it. Other side of question is that Sienna got only Crowbill, which kinda sucky vs hordes, or at least should be Kappa
Then goes Huntsman saying. Guys, pls, dont disturb elites untill i kill them from range, or at leats let me shoot that horde from time to time, dont burn it immediately with flamethrower. I can burst some elites with F, and even deal damage to monsters, but god i forgot that poison bottle in keep, so its not even close to WS hagbane. Melee is rough tho, I have no HP or melee bonuses. Can gain thp on ult, but just half of yours amount, girls, and thats overtime effect, rip me.
And then comes BH saying give me everything guys, I can be ranged shade Kappa. I ve got blessed shots every 10 sec, you pls do everything else for me in that time. I ve got axe and falch, but I have no melee bonuses and cant even gain thp on ult. But thats alright, at least I can kill CW quickly every 70 seconds. I wish for some monster damage, but gotta be blessed by sigmar to unload that bop into spawn’s head.
Know funniest moment of all of this?
WS: required no skill or actions, you just gain ammo, can gain from 0
Pyro: required no skill or actions, you just gain tHP to vent
Huntsman: required skill and playing around him, can gain from 0
BH: required a bit of skill, melee kill needed to gain ammo fast, cant gain from 0
WS: requires no skill or actions, you just gain ammo, can gain from 0
Pyro: requires no skill or actions, you just gain tHP to vent
Huntsman: requires skill and playing around him, can gain from 0
BH: requires a bit of skill, melee kill needed to gain ammo fast, overall ammo gain decreased by 4-12 times, cant gain from 0
So for me its like, ranged meta hasnt been nerfed really. Only BH was nerfed. You still can play him, but he is super inefficient on legend+
Lol wut? You can get back 3 ammo per head shot with the right talents and you use zero ammo when your ULT is up… you can fire the bow into a horde and get max ammo with nearly 1 or 2 arrows lol.
The 25% extra damage when out of ammo is still bugged and you can keep it up all game, lol. Also, A&F need zero buffs to kill everything in sight lol.
Ye, key word is bugged. While other Saltz careers have legit bonuses, like 20% dodge, 50% headshot, 30% power, ability to block frontal light, +20% dmg to tagged enemies, instant headshot crit kill, or being foking unkillable. All that for guaranteed ranged crit Kappa
And to other characters.
WS “Arcane bodkins” somehow help your melee weapon to hit harder.
Pyro just gets 18%-30% crit chance whenever she is forsed to fight melee.
And they both have that magic button, press F to gain 50 tHP.
Huntsman and BH - hmm, okay, guess we’ll suck FeelsBadMan
But you need to hit heads and you must give up to “boss-damaging” talents… while BH has the skill ready for almost every specials, so you don’t consume the “bullet” and you also have some ammo recovering.