Bounty Hunter Active Ability

I disagree. The 80% cooldown reduction is the problem. It wasn’t intended and it really doesn’t make sense, Salt’s not an elf, he shouldn’t be able to stunlock and solo a boss on all difficulties.

Getting the single 40% cdr is more than enough of a reward for cutting a quarter of a bosses health off, 80% is just too cheezy.

2 Likes

The issue isn’t the 80% cooldown reduction.
The stagger is the issue and is what allows bh to bully a monster on his own.

One thing we could do is remove the stagger but make it 100% refundable. This way it would keep its monster and elite niche, while also not being able to cheese bosses. (yes you could cheese certain ones that just stand still, like you can with piercing shot). The only issue would be that its too similiar, or more an exact copy as waystalker’s piercing shot, with a bit more damage.

If that would be too strong they could also remove stagger, but keep 80% cdr, this way, it would be a less spammy piercing shot, but give more damage per ult. This might be too weak, but they could look at numbers and adjust where necessary.

I do agree with james, that putting it at 40% cdr would kill the talent and make it pretty close to useless. So i think either removing the stagger (which isnt an optimal solution either), or just make it something different would be the best.

1 Like

Double Shotted deals 10 - 13% of boss HP. Give or take depending on properties.
(Cataclysm Chaos spawn)
Which is still waiting on about 53 - 70 seconds of cooldown.

Damage and cheese only really ramps up when a concentration potion is involved and the player is competent enough to not miss and stun-lock the boss.

Huntsman can theoretically chunk 50% of boss HP in 6 seconds, possibly more, but it rarely happens due to his inability to stagger/stun-lock.

Piercing Shot can theoretically kill a boss in 15 seconds without a potion, obviously that’s not really possible unless a boss is sitting still. Despite that, nobody calls out that talent for being cheesy or OP.

It seems more like a stagger/stun-lock problem than cooldown.

FS haven’t explicitly said it’s not intended.

“Fire two powerful bullets in a straight line. Scoring a headshot with this attack reduces the cooldown of Locked and Loaded by 40%.”

Scoring a headshot grants 40% cooldown reduction. Double Shotted has 2 bullets; 2 chances to headshot. Plus, 1 bullet can potentially score multiple headshots granting more than 40% cooldown.

It seems more likely to be intended than not.

Counter point: It’s FS

Without the stagger, the ult would feel pretty bad. It’s a shame there’s no shorter stagger animation for bosses.

It could be made more effective outside of bosses and less effective against bosses. E.g. Increased cleave + 20% cooldown per headshot etc.

Anything that makes it less one trick vs bosses. Compare Piercing Shot, which is in practice much more effective against against elites with a higher skill ceiling.

It’s definitely too much vs CWs (CW pat deleter without any pots required), but it’s a lot more interesting than Double-shotted is. The only thing DS gets over it is bodyshot damage and stagger, so I wouldn’t want it to lose the stagger.

Perhaps the stagger could be limited to Blessed Shots crits?

I’d like Double-shotted more if bosses were more frequent or if it was given a broader range of effective uses.

1 Like

I agree with your point. Double shotted has already good damage and concoction+stagger bonus gives huge boost on damage. You can fully spam this during 6s. One potion=solo monster is matter.

But I think mechanism should be intacted.
7s cooldown with headshot, knockback monster. That’s cool.
That powerful damage should get nerf IMO.
30% damage nerf on double shotted would be reasonable.
In that way, one BH can’t kill monster instantly.
Also can’t kill 2 CW with one ult.

Removing 40% cooldown or stagger can kill talent or at least kill fun aspect.

I’m honestly of the opinion that you could limit double shotted to one CDR proc and it’d still be a fine talent. Would still have better boss damage than the other two options, and I seem to remember that the base ult needs some properties to one body shot CWs on Cata whereas double shotted does not, but maybe I’m misremembering?

I’m not averse to a middle ground though. I’d still prefer 1 proc rather than 2, since you can only rely on getting both procs if you HS a CW without blessed shots, are shooting at a boss, or are client (weirdly). Perhaps 1 proc of 50/60% CDR on either bullet headshotting (with only 1 proc max, obviously)? Should be enough of a reduction to no longer hold bosses in place with a Conc pot, which is important I feel, but would get better general use since the CDR would be more accessible for normal enemies.

Taking away the stagger would ruin the talent in feel at very least. Reducing the damage would be OK I guess but killing two CWs with it is nice, and I’d still prefer BH couldn’t completely stagger lock a boss in place for the entire duration, unless, as @Velsix pointed out, bosses were made to be a significantly more regular part of adventure maps.

3 Likes

Exactly. Removing the stagger wouldn’t be ideal either, and remove alot of the original feel of the ultimate.

I actually did think of giving a weaker stagger to a boss and more to elites, but elites die instantly most of the time anyway, so i thought that was not a great idea.

Your idea on the other hand, more stagger on crits would be better. This way it would be impossible to perma stagger while also keeping it’s identity. Crits = more powerfull/more stagger, no crit = just a flinch. Or something like that.

1 Like

The base ult is a fair bit safer because of the buckshot shot. Compared to Just Reward, you get 880-ish dmg instead of 530-ish, but JR is safer outside of bosses, worse vs CWs, comparable on normal armour, better against Maulers/berserkers, easier to use/higher consistency and has higher horde dmg.

I’ve started taking Just Reward and I haven’t regretted it. BH does good damage to monsters already with all of Saltz range options.

60% at one proc would be interesting. It would make it less one trick.

The base ult needs Enhanced Power to kill a CW if both the sniper bullet and all of the shotgun pellets hit for a crit bodyshot.
For a non-crit single sniper bullet it takes 20% for a headshot, or 40% + Necessary Memes for a bodyshot. Double does do it without requiring a crit or any properties and can kill two.

I’d have to say the most unsatisfying thing in the game is firing Locked and Loaded and failing to kill a CW on headshot (excluding Buckshot). I recommend this experience to everyone.

I think limiting the stagger effect on bosses to Blessed Shots crits is a reasonable compromise. Blessed Combat could make such a change irrelevant, but it’s an overloaded talent that’s difficult to balance around.

Ok.
So we should assume it’s intended, unless its stated somewhere otherwise.

Doesn’t make sense, but ok.

“This man is guilty, I know he did it”

" do you have proof?"

" No, But i know for sure! "


Its fine to assume, but then you should say so, don’t state something as a fact, when its not. James did say its “most likely” meant to be intended, showed proof of the description where its not explicity said it shouldn’t refund more and that Fs hasn’t explicitly stated its a mistake.

The statement is just 40% cdr. I don’t see why we should assume current double-shotted is intended. It makes more sense to me that FS has no interest to fix it, compared to other cdr talents that where fixed like WHC’s unending hunt which gave you 80% cdr or even 100 if you ulted into some crazy hyperdensity. It’s not even the first bug they ignored and left in the game, they said being able to proc scrounger off of shotgun bashes was intended until it got fixed. Just how they roll :man_shrugging:

1 Like

I really don’t see the problem with the stun. It serves as a “get off me” tool, for a class that lacks any sort “AoE” or mobility.

It’s the high damage in conjunction with the stun, which makes it so strong, because you can actually delete the boss within the concentration timeframe. With less damage, no one would bat an eye.

Edit:
Keep in mind, do you wish to remove the stun from the special as a whole? Because that seems like a massive blanket nerf, to an already relatively weak special.

1 Like

Idk I feel that BH is in this weird place where he’s extremely powerful in just one area that is boss killing(which isn’t a guaranteed thing in vanilla gamemode) while he lacks in everything else.Take away Double Shotted and all you get is a lackluster ranger with bad thp gen compared to other rangers with access to on cleave/stagger,ammo sustain being timegated(Scrounger proc) or a talent that works only on 0 ammo,and weak melee.

I’d rather have FS rework his other two ult talent offering and make them a more competitive choice rather than gut the only thing he has going for him right now.

3 Likes

I mostly agree with this, though I would say he’s a pretty excellent special sniper with crossbow or BoP. The main issue there being that any old melee class can snipe specials good enough with with crossbow/handgun/rep handgun, to the point that a ranged class being good at special sniping isn’t really that helpful. He is definitely a good ranged elite deleter though. Completely agree that doesn’t cover his THP shortcomings + being basically completely reliant on scrounger for ammo sustain (no other ranged career is nearly as reliant on a weapon trait for ranged sustain).

I really think Just Rewards is fine, good even. I don’t think it needs any kind of buff. As @Lenny pointed out an indicator for when the CDR is ready would be a greatly appreciated QoL improvement. Double Shotted is only overwhelming when it comes to bosses, but its interaction there really is problematic and I haven’t seen a convincing argument saying otherwise as of yet. As said in my earlier post, I’d be very happy with a change that removed its ability to cheese bosses, while slightly buffing its use in other scenarios. Double Buckshot is definitely straight trash and needs significant changes. Making it penetrate shields was a step in the right direction. Personally I’d be thinking something like this:
Keep its armour damage low, maybe even reduce it further if necessary, but give it armour sliding so it’s an effective way of clearing trash around armoured enemies, which would be a useful and unique niche. Also give it a massive cooldown reduction, preferably without conditions since something like CDR per enemy killed would just unnecessarily encourage you to sit on it till there’s massive density to use it on, which isn’t really fun. Having a shotgun you can pull out multiple times per horde would be a genuinely competitive option considering how badly BH lacks AOE. It’s not even that hard to fix this talent, the key thing is it needs to be up way more often than the other two options for it to ever be good enough at its main job.

2 Likes

I’m going to throw some ideas into the pile for Buckshot:

  • Slightly higher penetration added to each pellet.
  • Slight increase (5%) to damage to make reaching Marauder bodyshot 1 shot crit single pellet breakpoint easier to reach. This would let it reach this bp with 20% crit power, 10% Chaos and Open Wounds without Hunter if using Blessed Combat.
  • Buckshot knocks enemies back further, and also knocks Victor backwards as well (would be the equivalent of a 1.10 distance dodge, and if timed with a dodge could make for a clean escape).
  • Spread increased (but with a narrower area for friendly fire detection, like the Drakegun).
  • Buckshot now breaks all shields (maybe even SV shields?)
  • A cooldown regen effect (like FK’s Inspiring Blow talent) that scales with how many enemies are near you.

Maybe not all of the above.

3 Likes
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu