Battle Wizard

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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I realize I’m probably coming off as a total ass. But in the same way that I don’t play pyro a lot because I don’t like her and find her subpar in dealing with a wider variety of scenarios, I notice a lot of people don’t play BW and when they do, they don’t do it with total effectiveness. I see once in a while people comment that they can’t really get her down well or they don’t like how she plays. I totally get that. I guess my point is people need to be a bit more imaginative.

I’ve never played with a killer pyro or yourself, so I don’t intend to pass total judgement on the career. I can only speak from my experiences and observations. It’s like how I think Bounty Hunter is okay/good, but falls short of WHC in terms of dealing with a broader range of situations. It’s a similar concept with Pyro/BW for me. (Also that Hank Hill was for a laugh, not to mock you)

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Dodging the question with the same reply. What in WHC’s design screams “give me more hp than others”? Or Merc Kruber’s for that matter? Carreer is called “Battle Wizard” not “Bright Wizard”. Battle does imply a certain hardiness.

More or less as much as you appealing to “might happen” scenarios and wanting to justify BW’s mediocrity by claiming that in some clutch scenarios, she is better than Pyro or UC. You define BW by the use of her ability with ONE talent selected. Does that sound like a reasonable character concept to you?

May I quote you? “This and some of your other statements though don’t make much sense. You’re thinking strictly in a perfect world scenario.” :wink: Pyro can be played with alot of reckless abandon. Different playstyle of course, but the argument “you don’t need temp health if you don’t get hit” is a strawman. By this logic, any temp health can be disregarded in any character.

Her mobility comes from her active ability and her active ability alone. She has no other mobility options, no movement speed option, no dodge distance option. That does not qualify as having alot better mobility.

Want me to start a endgame screenshot war with you were I post me playing Pyro that stomps your numbers into the ground where I literally have EVERY green circle apart from damage taken? Because that wouldn’t take me that long to gather. Endgame screenshots prove NOTHING.
If anything, you even prove my point with that approach. Notice how the majority of your “dps” are ranged kills? Wow, ranged kills on Sienna, get outta here! Alot of ranged kills are meaningless, I can get those with Bardin and a drakefire cannon. Boss damage is, apart from one game, not that impressive. Elite kills are sub-par.

No. Only as a tad bit ignorant and not really knowledgable about high-level play or game mechanics in general :slight_smile:

BH has become a bit left in the dust for a number of reasons, but WHC has been buffed into a very good spot. Kinda where I’d want to see BW in the future.

Fair enough. Still don’t think it did your argument any good since posting screenshots as a prove of anything being good or bad has been long established as bogus and pointless.
Again, it’s not so much that I don’t think BW cannot be played or that BW is not “Legend viable” or anything. But even you are admitting that she is pretty much only her active ability with ONE talent choice, that’s her “mobility” and “versatility”. In all other aspects, she has to bow to the DPS-superiority of Pyro and the awesome melee-ranged-blend that is UC. If your screenshots prove one thing, it is that BW’s melee stinks. Kinda bad in a melee-focused game, wouldn’t you agree?

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A lot of the public games have those scenarios and it’s good to have a lot of options to deal with a randomized environment. You’re judging mediocrity based on what factors? Every single game a player could go as BW and rock it. I don’t define BW by the use of her active alone. I’m bringing up points/options and ways to use those things. You’re just singling things out and using that as ammo for your arguments. You’re not considering the broader applications.

You’re one of those people huh. That is the most ignorant line said in this thread so far for so many reasons.

There are many ways to play the game and you only enforce what I said earlier:

It’s not even a discussion at this point. You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.

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If you mean “one of those people” that I think people who think that BW’s faster spell-charging somehow magically reduces overcharge generated when this is obviously not the case don’t know what they are talking about, then yes, I am one of those people :wink: Or not knowing that Pyro’s active still kill CW. You know, pretty basic stuff you could find out by spending about 10 minutes in the game.

No, not at all. You are dodging and simply disregarding any points that challenge your argument by either deflecting or ignoring them. That’s not a very productive way to conduct a discussion about changes. “There are many ways to play the game” is meaningless platitude you are resorting to because that is easier than disproving my points. Same holds true for “You’re not considering the broader applications”. Meaningless gibbergabber.

Already stated that multiple times: At the moment, the game favours offensive play and heavily so. Pyro has objectively higher DPS potential for a multitude of reasons I’ve very explicitly stated, which you disagree with but provide nothing in the sake of making an argument besides said platitudes and posting pointless endgame screenshots. Your anecdotal “broader applications” are either not exclusive to BW, making my point that she lacks profile, pretty valid, or they are not alot more pronounced than on BW when compared to Sienna’s other two carreers that make her worthwile.
BW has no synergy between ranged and melee and even your attempt at posting endgame screenshots prove that. Your melee kills reflect that pretty well. Pyro’s melee is better, UC’s is so by miles. Pyro’s ranged is better and arguable, so is UC’s because she can handle overcharge alot better. The situations you preach are simply that: situations. As of now, the game is about killing stuff as quickly as possible. BW’s killing power isn’t as high as Pyro’s or UC’s, because she doesn’t have access to many abilities that increase her DPS. That’s not rocket-science to figure out, look at Pyro’s talents, look at BW’s talents. Except for the active ability and the gimmicky endless DoT, Pyro can do anything BW can, and even more. She has more pronounced choices in talents, more access to overcharge management options, better temp health generation options, the list goes on. Still not seeing much of an argument made from your side to challenge that.

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I thought BW was in a good spot right befor the the temp hp change.
Now when i play BW i have way less thp (maybe thats just my playstyle), and thats not good for venting.
This change made the flaw in the BW stick out, bad heat management. Pyro and UC can just cast more spells and …bla bla bla…
I agree with most the stuff @Kekmaster said about all this.
The one thing BW should not have is a focus on dot. Everything that gets killed by a long dot can be killed by you and your team without it. The situation where a dot effect will save your run is very niche i believe. Faster spell-charging, more overcharge and reduced overcharge generated and maybe more health, thats the fixes for this class.

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This is very much true and this is the main flaw of the lingering flame talent, a single DoT stack might as well not exist. That’s why I think it could be explored what would in generel happen if BW’s DoT was significantly higher. I mean, damage over time is already the main damage source for weapons like Beam staff and arguably adds alot of horde clearing damage to flame sword. If this aspect was more pronounced, BW could deal relevant DoT in a smaller time frame, so her damage output wouldn’t spike like, say, Pyro’s due to crits or UC’s due to having high overcharge, but would be a very constant stream of medium damage that adds up over a shorter time.

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Here’s how i’d buff BW

  1. Would give her a new perk that doubles fire DoT damage, which would combo well with lingering flames.

  2. Dash ult: Fix the clunkiness that occurs in tight spaces and increase the size/number of fires left by her dash.

  3. Lastly i’d change Smoldering skin to a 25% health boost, because the 50% damage reduction while being the last one alive is a pretty useless skill, you should never pick this skill unless your team mates are absolutely useless and play worse then bots, at which point you may as well just play with bots instead. At least with a 25% health talent you’ll get some good use out of it.

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Yep, and it’s useless on the careers that have it. It does allow for some sick clutches, but the real threat to being alone is disablers who don’t give a fart about your damage resistance. Taking the talent is basically planning for failure

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Those would be welcome changes indeed.

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I like BW a lot but just can’t play it on higher difficulties because she’s too squishy. She has almost no ability to generate THP which makes venting a royal pain, and I just end up waiting for Tranquility to come up and hoping I don’t have to melee since I can’t afford to take a single hit. Since the career is specialized in pumping out charged staff skills as fast and often as possible, this makes her gameplay really awkward.

While I love Fire Walk, it doesn’t really fit BW very well It would fit in much better with a strong melee class - I would KILL to swap ults between Pyro and BW. BW focuses on staff combat, so a ranged ult compliments that, and Pyro gets massive a crit bonus that makes her melee surprisingly strong, and a mobility ult compliments that. It’s not gonna happen I know, but BW just doesn’t seem to have any talent builds that compliment her passives.

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Try taking the stagger talent for temp HP, then use the flame sword or dagger. They generate a ton of temp with their heavy attacks. Also, the trait on your necklace, Shallya’s Boon, that 30% increased healing also increases Temp HP gain.

Yea, like everyone else is saying. It think a simple HP increase would be all she needs. And Perhaps allow 2 DoTs to stack for her lingering flames.

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I’ve tried that. Flame sword works well, except that the horde is usually too dead to have enough targets to get good THP generation from. Either I killed them with my staff before it came to that, or the team did. And the stagger talent just doesn’t give enough THP vs small numbers of targets. So it works, but the situation it works in just doesn’t come up often.

Speaking of flame sword, maybe slightly OT but it’s still Sienna… but it’s doing damage on the fire claw attack now (just over 500 on dummy) - it seems to be just enough to kill slave rats with the first tick of the dot, which is a huge improvement. Is this a change to the sword or to how the dummy displays attacks? It was 0 damage when I was testing builds two weeks ago.

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It seems to have only a slight cone where it deals the damage, rest of the struck area just get staggered and ignited.

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Very mature and productive way to react to criticism when someone challenges your (in certain parts simply objectively false) arguments. Also, the carreer is clearly called “Battle Wizard”, not “Bright Wizard”. You know, if you’d spend more time actually playing the game and dabbling with in depths mechanics, we wouldn’t be having this pointless conversation where you try to insult me by posting Memes. Also, judging from the likes in this topic and the replies, people somehow seem to agree with me more than with you. That’s an interesting obersvation to consider if everything I said could be summarized in the that very clever fashion of yours.

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Problems I’ve noticed with BW:
First of all, it feels like it’s supposed to be a bit supportive, but ends up needing more support itself. The increased charge speed means that it gets stuck on higher overcharge than the other Careers and can’t spam CC as it should if it’s a support. The higher Overcharge sometimes leaves you feeling useless, slower Attack Speed or burn off True Health because your Temp HP is always low.

Low Temp HP generation:
Even when running 60% heal bonus and Temp HP on kill, you still don’t get much. The only way I could play this without constantly thinking about my Health is with a WHC (Temp HP on Elite Kill Talent or CDR Merc Kruber spamming his Ult). I even get melee kills pretty often with the Crowbill (Skaven + AS for fast SV kills). Crowbill for SV kind of saves this Career for me.

For me Headshots/Crit Talent would make way more sense than Stagger = Temp HP, since you mainly use fast weapons anyway.

Attack speed slow on high overcharge:
Being kind of forced to melee for Tranquility to proc and then having really slow attack speed, forces you to play AS on weapon at least, and doesn’t feel very fun.

World Aflame or Lingering Flames:
Both feel slightly weak, with World Aflame probably being the most useful overall. Lingering Flame isn’t really worth it other than meme Special kills. It would be great to see Lingering flame be expanded into a bigger part of that Class as a dot class in this game could be interesting.

Tranquility:
While the idea of making you bounce between melee and ranged is good, and it can be satisfying to drop a full Conflag during a melee fight, I’d much rather have two actives similar to BH. Using ranged = melee active and using melee = ranged active. In a game where your actions matter and the more you do means you make more of a difference, a passive that isn’t really that huge doesn’t make sense to me. Or add Earthing back as the passive. Being on a timer and looking for Buffs while also thinking about Temp HP makes the Career a little Frustrating at times.

Ultimate:
Burnout and Volans’ are the only real choices, removing the Overcharge reduction one made other Talents more appealing, but also left BW with HP management problems. The Ultimate sometimes doesn’t move you very far or gets stuck on doors/obstacles, which is pretty frustrating. Using it to teleport over gaps can also be a little weird as you have to place it in specific areas for it to work.

Main build I play:
Crowbill: AS/Skaven (Swiftslaying)
Conflag: Chaos/Inf (Thermal Equalizer)
Neck: Push Angle/HP (Boon of Shallya)
Charm: Chaos/Inf
Trinket: Curse Resistance/Crit

Talents:
1,3,2,2,3

Playstyle:
Low Overcharge = spam fully charged shots on high density
High overcharge = push for melee, try to steal Elite kills or quickly 2shot SV with headshots and pop off a fully charged shot whenever Tranquility is active.

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This.

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