Battle Wizard

I feel she is surpassed by pyro in both melee and ranged.
Pyros “Shield of Taurus” is much more reliable than “burning vigor” and rewards being in the thick of it with high overcharge.
Pyro has crits on high overcharge = more melee dmg.
Two of pyros lvl 25 talents can be used to remove overcharge. “bonded flame” talent makes her tankier in a way too, considering the constant thp gain.

I feel like the only the first row of talent are in any way “better”.
Her tranquility passive lets her vent and rewards not getting hit wich I think is neat.
If BW had some other bonus like increased dodging connected to her passives in order to reward clever positioning and avoiding dmg.
Maybe not getting hit for a while could stack a some kind of buff.

Would love to hear others thoughts on this. Also would like tips on how to play bw better.

Edit: Thanks for all the replies and ideas! I really really hope FS takes a look at this. I love Bw to death and i she gets some more love from fs as well.

Conflag staff, max your talents to spell charge speed, form a circle around or near yourself and just stun/stagger everything (provided you have the power build).
100% block cost reduction build to just cower in a corner/kite while you auto-vent, repeat flaming circle patches with lingering flames (anything set on fire, stays on fire)

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Tried it out… can’t say its very effective. The time it takes to kill anything with DoT is way too long.

Come find me to play a game or two, some things need to be shown not told.
Altho, caveat, i DID mention you needed the right power build

been BW some more. She is fine… lol
still think Pyro outclasses her tho unless its talking bout using conflag.
And the molten skin talent… Its fun to use in solo tho

What trait do u use for conflag? I use barrage

Pyro outclasses BW in terms of DPS for sure, BW offers survivability and a bit of melee as the balance.
Suggested build for conflag on BW is infantry/Chaos on the staff (thermal equalizer) and charm, I use crowbill stam/crit/swiftslayer with curse/crit on trinket and your choice of defensive necklace (hp/stam/natural bond for me)

All items are red or perfect orange. A full circle blast will destroy fodder and stagger/dot everything else unless they are in a berserk attack animation. Pick and choose your target. I blast crowds once or twice, switch to crowbill and peck at any survivors.

I also spam ult as a mini circle that stuns and dots things. The dot is not reliant to kill anything, so feel free to switch to World Alfame. I mainly picked it for boss dps, slow as it may be, it’s no different from hagbane dot.

Wait you use conflag for boss dps? Interesting

Full charge patch x2, BW ult stun, wait a bit, stun again (2x ult talent), melee a bit, then go back to normal fireball throwing or patch. I know it’s not a lot of dmg, but when you bring conflag and crowbill, you sacrifice boss dps for CC. What else am I gonna do during a boss fight?

I see BW as more of a “support” character that focuses on staggering enemies rather than outright killing them. Conflagration is great for this, as it can be spammed multiple times and makes enemy patrols rather trivial. BW’s 100% block rate can be useful too, especially when holding a chokepoint while your teammates deal with a boss.

i see the confusion. I was referring to me selecting Lingering Flames talent as DPS for boss fights rather than World Aflame. I did not mean I chose conflag staff purely for boss DPS

Battle Wizard has a multitude of problems when compared to Sienna’s other two very strong carreers.
In essence, BW is a gimmick. Her abilities are just that: gimmicky. Both Pyro and Unchained have abilities that just synergize very well with each other and more importantly: blend melee and ranged very well. We don’t need to talk about UC in this regard. Pyro’s passive crit bonus tremendously helps her melee abilities as well and her active ability is straight forward. Both Pyro and UC have access to abilities that either help reduce overcharge generated or vent it in a multitude of ways. UC is unaffected by overcharge slowdown and Pyro has access to abilities to counteract it somewhat (he has access to TWO abilities that boost her attack speed).
BW’s passive abilities do jack for her melee. Spell charge speed is unimportant for melee. Automatically venting overcharge does nothing in melee. And when she has high overcharge, her melee slows down.
BW’s overall shtick of having overcharge vented by itself is nice and all, but if overcharge hampers your melee, you’re not going to melee. She has not passive damage bonus in form of crits or otherwise apart from the +10% ranged damage bonus she shares with Pyro.
Her talents don’t synergize too well, they are pretty much just defining very limited aspects. 100% BCR is a gimmick, which is nice to have for a defensive style of play, but the game is so heavily focused on offensive play that it rarely comes into play. Also, I find it VERY weird that a concept that boils down to “stand around and hold M2” qualifies as a carreer concept. Her overall design is just designed towards being boring. Her active ability works reasonably well (if it works at all, that is), but it lacks ANY kind of profile. Compare it to other charging abilities. Kruber gets to knock down and has offensive and defensive options to choose from. Keri dashes and deals damage and also has offensive, defensive and utility options. Same with Zealot and Slayer.

BW has the option to leap forword more or leap forward more. The stagger is unreliable at times. The firetrail can be utilized reasonably well with enough creativity and awareness, but it is absolutely no contest when compared to both Sienna’s two other carreers and other charging abilities. The firetrail is only useful as a CC or horde clearing tool in very confined spaces, otherwise, the AI will circle around it. It deals laughable damage. The area covered is very small. The option that the flames linger longer is a joke.

It also doesn’t help that BW has trouble generating temp health, her main ressource to vent overcharge. She has access to the two arguably worst options: stagger and kill. Stagger is unreliable because the stagger actually has to occur (so enemies climbing etc. don’t generate much) and her melee arsenal isn’t suited for it. It works very well with flamesword and okay-ish with mace (on heavy sweaps) but stales when compared to on cleave and on crit/headshot/creadshot. She also has, as already mentioned, no other ways to get rid of overcharge. Pyro has the venting and temp health option and reasonable temp health generation from melee (both because of talents and her melee being overall better because of crits). UC can increase her overcharge bar, reduce overcharge generated, vent by blocking or improve venting, he ability always vents. UC has an engaging playstyle that actively encourages you to switch between ranged and melee, literally playing with fire how risky you can be. For Pyro melee is definitely a secondary option, but she can handle herself due to SS essentially being up anytime she swings. He active ability can thin out hordes, too, and she ALSO has access to BCR ability tied to her already powerful crit chance increase.

Pyro and UC have a very distinct profile and are fun to play, I love their melee/ranged blend (especially since wigglemancer and ranged temp-health isn’t a thing anymore :slight_smile: ). BW is essentially Pyro without the crits and without the ability. Faster spellcharging is nice, but it doesn’t get you very far if your overcharge is so limited. 20% overcharge reduction is pretty much a must on staffs for her and even then, on staffs like bolt, you can’t do very much before your overcharge meter is red hot.

Speaking of staffs, people keep mentioning Conflag staff as being her staple. I agree, Conflag with spell-charge speed maxed is alot of fun - but is that REALLY all there is to BW? Conflag is already a rather situational weapon, requires alot of positioning and can even be annoying since it can spread hordes out due to the lingering flame (which enemies tend to maneuvre around) and tossing smaller enemies around instead of funneling. But at least Conflag is a staff where you can safeley say it is performing distinctively better on BW than on the other two carreers, since it’s overall nature doesn’t benefit from crits too well (making it less interesting for Pyro) and the slow charge speed makes it a little clumsy to use for both Pyro and UC (and as UC, you are better of going into melee due to the staff’s rather limited ranged on charged spells).

But the other staffs? They either perform either better on the other two or without much difference.
Fireball works at least as good on Pyro and UC because they have better overcharge management and Fireball’s strength doesn’t necessarily lie in the charged balls, but spamming uncharged balls - and here, overcharge is king. Put barrage on it (or in Pyro’s case, Hunter is a veritable option) and you are all set. Faster charged fireballs are nice, but that doesn’t synergize well with Barrage (or Hunter, for that matter) - and don’t forget that both these traits also boost melee damage!
Boltstaff works reasonably well, but again, it’s arguably better at least on Pyro because she can handle overcharge better. Both Pyro and BW can kit their Bolt to two-shot CW with headshots (which is very might, no question!), but Bolt being a rather mediocre staff in other regards (no zoom on a sniper staff, VERY high overcharge and absolutely ABYSMALLY low boss damage) still makes it at least even between Pyro and BW - and Pyro still has better crits (for more damage, especially against bosses) and can fire it more often before venting (when kitted right at least). The 10% less damage do mean that UC cannot hit the 2-headshot-breakpoint on CW without the help from other abilities (WHC tag is enough and since UC can sustain large amounts of overcharge, running Barrage or Hunter on it and then spamming light attacks on CW before charging up the bolts works wonders). The faster charging does mean you get those bolts out a little faster on BW but bolt generates such large amounts of heat that this advantage is very limited, and even with the 40% faster charging, you get 2 bolts out before the difference becomes hardly noticable again. Also, the charged bolt is usually used for targets at medium to medium-far ranges where charge speed isn’t all that important and BW’s advantage starts to melt (quite literally :wink: )

Flamethrower is more or less on an even playing field. It is a very overcharge-efficient staff, especially with the faster charging abilities from BW (with maxed out, you charge for maybe a second or two and can blast away at full charge), but imho, when push comes to shove, it is still better on Pyro and UC can also get more mileage out of it. Pyro can run Hunter on it for longer buff, which gives her a solide edge in melee, especially against armoured (stagger them in place and weaken them with your flames, then switch to melee and benefit from the 25% power vs. boost) and more importantly, her active ability can counter the staff’s biggest weakness: no long range. Even without CDR-trait, holding your flamethrower into a horde considerably charges your ability (even more so because she crits more often), so you have that burning head ready to deal with otherwise out of reach target. Pyro can also deal serious damage against CW with this staff, especially when on high overcharge due to crits piercing. UC can boost her already impressive melee damage even further with barrage, which again plays into an already existing synergy rather than creating it.

And don’t get me started on Beam. BW has nothing that gives her incentive to choose beam other than MAYBE burn-damage ticks - but since they are limited to one tick (and beam’s main boss killing power comes from the insane stacks of burning ticks), Beam is completely pointless on BW.

BW needs profile. BW needs something disctinctive. The infinite burning ticks I found to be an amazing idea, but BW needs to provide a foundation for something like this.
IMHO, BW should be about two things: damage over time and charged spells, both of which is are hinted at, but not executed till the end.

My suggestions after this WoT would be to explore these two aspects of BW.
Give BW a passive 50% bonus for all damage over time and make the infinite DoT talent increase that by an additional 25% or so. Make it so that her passive 10% damage buff is not for ranged damage, but for FLAME damage so it incorporates all of her melee attacks that deal fire damage. Give her the passive ability that all charged spells cost 20% less to cast and an option to increase that by another 15% or so.
Give her access to a DR-Talent on high overcharge (instead of DR while being disabled). How about an ability that generates temp health whenever an enemy dies from DoT?

BW could also be a prime candidate for being a 125 base health carreer. And by Aqshy, give her access to with temp health on cleave. BW is more or less designed as a CC and horde clearing carreer.

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Yes. This.
I do think you are a bit harsh a the beggining tho. I think tranquility passive is a fun mechanic.
Lots of fun /good ideas there at the end.

2 Likes

My sentiments exactly. I find myself playing battle wizard a lot these days. She feels legend viable for me at this point.

I think my only complaint at this point has to deal with super armor. I wouldn’t mind DoT doing a pittance worth of damage, but I think lingering flames should be able to kill anything eventually. I recently had a match where it was just me and a bot kiting a storm fiend until it finally burned out. It was damn satisfying.

In a related sense, I feel like the flaming path she leads should also trigger DoT; it’s always struck me as odd that it doesn’t – or am I mistaken about that.

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I don’t have much firsthand experience with BW but from what I’ve seen other people play:

  1. Block cost reduction is really good
  2. Passive vent is really good
  3. Fast spell charging is really good
  4. Teleport twice per ult is REALLY good

The only thing I would do to change BW would be to add more melee options and increase the DoT/damage of the ult explosion and flame trail so that they actually accomplish something.

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I played her more as well lately. And ofcourse she is legend viable. But I still feel there is something a little off. Its not like she is vastly underpowered and her ult is insanely good(when it doesnt glitch).

Suggestions:
Switch out passive ranged dmg with increased Dot dmg.
“Centered” talent could be switched out with something melee offencive. (Timed it recently;not that much of difference really)
“Molten skin” wich is fun to use in solo run, should still be switched out with something defensive that is less situational.

I do believe these changes would make her a good starter pokemon seeing how every talent row has melee/ranged/defensive option.

My appologies if it came out to crass, I didn’t want to sound too harsh, I mean, FS did a very good job with UC and Pyro which only makes it more sad that there’s so much potential for BW, yet she falls flat. The ideas behind the carreer are not bad at all, it just needs some nudge in the right direction and some profile.

There are alot of options. Apart from me still thinking BW could use 125 health, Sienna also doesn’t have any kind of aura in her carreers and I think BW would be a perfect candidate for an aura-effect to flesh out her role as more of a support hero while being all about damage over time.

How about giving her an aura “Flaming Sword of Rhuin”, with the effect that some attacks by all heroes within the area of effect deal one tick of damage over time. Crits would be an obvious choice, or heavy attacks.

It could also make for some interesting talent choices. “World Aflame” could easily then be geared towards dealing damage over time to every enemy that is within the aura’s effect.

Her active ability could also be fleshed out more. Like I’ve said, her options are not very disctinct from each other. The two-in-a-row-teleport is okay in my books, but it makes the CDR option almost irrelevant.
I would like to see something more akin to Kruber’s charge that gives it a secondary purpose. An offensive option could be that after using the ability, BW gets 50% reduction in overcharge generated, allowing her to reposition and then start slinging spells at reduced cost for a short time. A defensive option could be that blocking attacks for a certain amount of time after using the ability deals fire damage to attacking enemies (which would synergize very well with her BCR-route of talent).

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Would be an incredible talent :slight_smile:

An aura is a cool idea. could maybe be tied to her tranquility passive. maybe switch out “centered” talent.
I dont think “World aflame” should be switched out tho. since it’s so powerfull.

Well I hope there someday comes an Big balance beta focusing on unused talents.
Like Unchained has also some talents also wich I think nobody uses.
If you read The Curse of the Second Talent Row
u’ll see what I mean.

All in all I just think BW just needs a bit of nudge. DoT dmg is the thing I would like most.

It is, but it is also unreliable. You can’t really build around it break-point-wise. That’s why I’d advocate for something a little more reliable, something you have more control over.

Also, after dabbling a bit more with Pyro and BW, I can safely say that Pyro is probably even Sienna’s strongest melee-carreer due to the fact how insanely you can stack attack speed and crits. Blasting away a few spells to get your overcharge high, then take you 1h sword, jump into melee with already +25% attack speed boost, hit your crits, SS procs, just cut everyone’s head of with charged attacks. Her crits balance out the biggest weaknesses on 1h sword and flamesword, which is armour damage. You don’t need any armour damage, with 40% crit chance and 50% attack speed boost, you just flail away at CW’s head with light attacks and he will just die. You don’t even need to be too precise, as you crit so often that even if you don’t hit the head, you still deal damage with crits, and siginificant damage at that. UC is definitely more consistent, being able to high breakpoints with 1h sword easily to one shot fanatics with light blows or just absolutely wreck SV with crowbill, but Pyro can’t blow up and if you go with temp health on burning head, you can play very aggressively both in ranged and melee.

This is what BW has to compare with, she needs something to bring her to this level, but in a different way.

2 Likes

Honestly this is why I hope they don’t change battle wizard, because it’s a lot more skill and tactics based. “Get high overcharge and just flail around going ape****” seems mind-numbingly boring to me. Yes it’s very effective, but for someone who isn’t min-maxing their build I think battle wizard is way more fun to play. Her capacity for crowd control, mobility, and tankiness make her very versatile and her talent choices seem a lot more like actual choices, depending on which play style you want to go with. Plus the double fire walk is just ridiculously fun and probably my favorite of all the ults out there.

4 Likes

It is also alot less effective. I don’t think anybody wants to turn BW into “The second Pyro.” But as of now, BW is “the worse Pyro”. What BW brings to the table needs to be up to par with Pyro and UC. UC is arguably also alot more “skill based” than Pyro, since overcharge management is literally life or death, and you cannot rely on crits, but on hitting breakpoints with your overcharge damage buff. That works well, because there is a synergy between ranged and melee. BW has simply nothing in this regard. Her ranged abilities don’t translate anything to melee and her melee doesn’t translate anything to ranged. BW isn’t “tanky”, she can be made to have 100% BCR (which isn’t as useful as people make it to be imho) under certain circumstances and only when choosing ONE specific talent. Pyro and UC have all they need to fill there role from the get-go and can then mix and match into different interpretations of their roles. BW’s role is not interpreted, it is absolutely defined by your choice of talents, at least to some degree. Sienna’s CC is already very strong, no matter what carreer. The slight advantage BW gets simply isn’t up to speed to the kits Pyro or UC simply have by default. With BW, you need to jump hoops to justify your mediocre presence. The choice of talents, well… somewhat. Not that much more or less than others that are not 100% railroaded to one line of talents because otherwise, their whole kit falls apart (I’m looking at you, Slayer!).
Double firewalk is fun to use, but compare it to other charging abilities. It does pretty much nothing.
BW is certainly not a concept that is doomed to fail, but the key word is “concept”. BW needs leitmotif.

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