Bardin's (currently not-so-)Great Axe

Greetings daaaawri!

Let me start by saying that I think the Great Axe is in a…playable spot at least and I’d love to use it alot more often than usual, if it weren’t first and foremost for the simple fact that it’s clunky as hell.

Not clunky as in slow like the 2h Hammer or (Grimnir forbid) the Pickaxe.
Clunky as in “wait for your current animation to fully finish before you can parry”. I haven’t had this on any other weapon in the game so far, even the 2h Hammer (a weapon much slower and heavier) can be cancelled way earlier and more reliably.

I presume this is a bug and I demand a fix or this will be a grudg’n. Any other opinions on his Axe? Post them here! Show the Axe some love.

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I outlined my reasons for being disappointed with the not-so-Great Axe on this thread:

tl;dr Great Axe is, indeed, not so great, and the Slayer mechanics do not incentivize using Great Weapons, or really anything besides Dual Axes and either 1h or 2h Hammer. 1h and 2h Axe don’ t have a use case for Slayer. Great Axe feels terrible in VT2 compared to VT1, and makes me sad.

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Fair enough, I should have probably stated that I’m using it as Ironbreaker, just to get out of the “playing 2h Hammer 24/7” whole from time to time.

It is true that it is extremely lackluster as slayer and I myself rather use the 2h Hammer or 1h Hammer rather than the not-so-Great Axe, which is a shame.

Now that you mention it, the swing pattern for normal attacks is indeed weird and makes you miss alot.

Currently for me, the attack cancelling + swing pattern are the biggest perpetrators.

By Vallaya I can always get down on some good 2H Axe discussion.

I totally agree with the,

wait for your current animation to fully finish before you can parry

It’s a bunch of umgak if you ask me!

I will disagree with you though about it being in a good spot. Basically anything the 2H Axe can do the 2h Hammer can do better. Cleave and armor damage are both better.

The 2H Axe needs a bunch of love.

My recommendations:

  1. Improve stamina from 2.5 to 3 shields and give the 2H Hammer 4
  2. Improve speed slightly
  3. Allow for block cancelling
  4. Since the charged width is smaller than 2H Hammer, give it a little more damage and more armor pen while cleaving (similar to Halberd)
  5. I’d like it to be more similar to the Halberd, but with slightly slower attack speed and more damage/ armor pen
  6. Lastly, bring back backstab on it
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2handed weapons should really all have stamina increased. It should go something like:

  • Most = Shields
  • Middle = Two-handed weapons
  • Low = One-handed weapons
  • Least = Dual wield weapons

The slower the weapon and the worse the dodge count and mobility, which covers pretty much all two handers except the Spear (totally not favoritism going on there btw), the more they need stamina to be able to block and push where the lighter weapons can use mobility and dodging instead.

It doesn’t make any sense to me why some weapons like the 1h hammer have higher mobility, higher dodge count, faster swing speed, AND more stamina when compared to 2h weapons.

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elf’s glaive and wardancer could really use this as well.

In V1, the dwarf was my main character and the great axe was my main weapon. In V2, though, the great axe does not seem nearly as useful. It is probably a handful of factors, but it is noticeably not as good as it was in V1. The 2h axe should be extremely devastating and it is just not - its mediocre for damage and poor usability. I’m fine with a weapon that is difficult to use, it should be worth it due to high damage though.

Now I just use the 1h hammer since it does similar things as the 2h (just reverse the power and light attacks), but better at it.

I agree with pretty much all of this. I’d like to see cleave damage and armor pen increased on the 2H Axe. I run 2H Axe with Grudge Raker as HOBO BARDIN on Champ once in awhile when I’m bored and want to mix it up… yeah it’s a nice change but it’s not a very good build.

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i believe it is intended design because once you have committed to a super heavy attack it’s physically not easy to recover from that attack mid strike into a block

Especially with the Glaive where the heavy attack combo’s into that three sweep swing so easily.

I have been using the 2H axe on champ and legend and prefer it to the hammer, hammer scatters mobs while the axe kills them outright - I’m using it with Swift Slaying and +AttackSpeed though

I don’t see that much use of one handed weapons,for characters that have access to dual/two handed, though, so I’m not sure removing their stamina advantage would be warranted. They have a short range and are used as a quick and reactive tool for offense and defense without the large cleaves and stagger of other choices.

What would be the point of the most powerful weapons are very safe anyway? The two handed hammer is already the best compromise most of the time.

My main issue is charged attack dodge distance and speed debuff, compared with relativley short range and number of targets, it makes you to vulnerable. And fast attack is a single target (I love that they changed 3rd strike to small cleave, but it’s not game changing). In game 1 it was the only weapon, that would 1shot clanrats in body on cata, so you could play “this card” fighting roamers and waves, and with BS you could just melt down ratogres. With introduction of human-enemies, those numbers lost some of its significance.
You can use it, but almost every other weapon is better, and GA has no clear identitiy, there is nothing that it does best, so you have no reason to take it considering all the downsides. So, If would buff it, I would probably make it better in what it should do best - in killing. If it would body-1shot marauders on legend, it would be fine.

If it is, it makes no sense and is completely random.
Sure, at some point you’re committed to the attack, but on no other weapon does it feel so clunky and forced as on the not-so-Great Axe. After I swung my mighty 2h Hammer, I can snap into blocks and thus avoid damage, with the Axe I sometimes even get another swing I didn’t really desire nor order. Then I have to wait for the animation to fully finish AND THEN I can finally block. It just takes too long and in a game where quick reflexes and maximum freedom of fighting (attack/block/dodge/block-push etc.) is necessary, it can outright kill you.

If I’m not mistaking, Morrlieb’s even larger than during the Ubersreik, no wait sorry…the Axe needs 3 body its on Marauders on Legend. I’d be fine with 1 on light attacks.

Other than that, Bing pretty much summed it up perfectly.

While i would say the 2h axe in general is a pretty decent weapon, the blocking thing is certainly a big negative. In my opinion, it should behave like the 2h hammer in that regard, at least (if not better).
Other than that, it’s higher attack speed, better mobility and much more deadly heavy attack make it a pretty solid alternative to the 2h hammer imo.

1h weapons have pretty much the same range as 2h ones and not actually much less cleave. 2h have like 10% more.

Looks like we got an update to the 2H Axe in the 1.0.6 update:

Great Axe:
Increased first target damage on heavy attacks, increased boss damage even more on first target.

Anyone had a chance to test it? The first part makes sense, but I’m kinda confused on the second. Are they saying that when doing a charged attack the impact does more damage to a boss? Does the weapon feel any different?

I can confirm that the Axe does more damage with heavy attacks, I can take down SV with 2 hits (1 heavy, 1 light) on their body compared to 3 light attacks or 2 heavy ones.

The second one…well…I presume it does more damage to bosses with charged attack? Or the first light attack? I’m confused.

Still, the blocking issue still exists and the weapon feels underwhelming against larger hordes. Needs more cleave and a bit of attack speed.

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Looks like it’s identity should be in killing boses… Maybe it is, but I can’t see how it justifies the negatives, especially since killing boses with meele weapons is not as reliable as with range.

I Am not as good with Bardin as i am other characters. But ill throw my 2 cents in the ring. I think the 2 handed hammer doing more damage to armored enemies than the axe is a bit silly. (Yes the axe charged attack dose more than the hammer charged but that’s not the issue in my mind.)

The way they swing feels like there should be the option for choosing if you do an overhead vs. a wide sweep attack to help smooth out the feel of them. i mean we do have a mouse button for certain weapons already to use a special attack. why not just change the swings to mix overhead and wide swings on different buttons then let players choose what kind of swing they want to use? i feel like it would be WAY more comfortable and useful to players of all skill levels.

In my mind the feel of the weapon is a bit off because of the basic swings. its uncomfortable and takes away from the unique traits of the weapon. and Strongly hurts the versatility of them as well. i can respect and understand having to commit to the attacks with a 2 handed weapon and not block cancel them. but at least let me choose what attacks im going to commit to so i can make a plan for dipping in and out of enemy attack range.

I’ve been hoping to see more use of the great axe as my hero power rose but it seems that it’s just not going to happen. There just isn’t much that is unique about it compared to the 2h hammer.

The hammer has:
-Great attack angle, hitting tons of enemies if you turn during a swing.
-Similar amount of damage to crowd for charged.
-More single armored target damage.

The only advantage for great axe is that it does substantially more damage to first target with charged, and I don’t think buffing that aspect does much for its usability.

Perhaps something unique like cleaving through 1 armored unit would give it a place.

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