Auto Ban function for all <level 1 5 champion players

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
21

Probably already said but a Gearscore or Powerscore is one of the laziest and most senseless Methods as Symbol of your Experience, especially in a game like Vermintide. It says nothing about the understanding and Talent of a Person.

Characteristics of reasonable Players:

  • communicates with the Group
  • knowledge over maps and the Behavior of the Enemys(not necessary)
  • keeps an Eye on the Group and himself/Surroundings
  • doesnt leave after one wipe instead tries to improve
  • has patience for other
  • isnt a all insulting Elgi
  • was a joke, relax Dawri

Not all of those Traits do or must all apply on us! But it helps a lot if some do.

22

They’re not going to make the 420 power cap if they don’t have their gear equipped? I think the only way to circumvent that is if they join a friend mid-mission.

23

you can go into champion as soon as you meet the requirement and beat it. this meme of people running veteran until they’re 25 has really got to stop.

24

If they join a quest and go into combat but “forgot” to put trinkets and such on. Then they can join games that they even have less than 90 power level. on champion/legendary.

It is “rare” but I notice that this excuse comes up a lot to the point they should do something to prevent it from happening.

A solution is to give them a warning that they have TO LOW power level so they remember to equip the stuff. There is no indication before it is to late.

Nobody gives a crap what your level are on veteran but it starts to make a difference on champion and legendary. You can “pass” on champion with 10+ characters if you got gear to compensate, but you really should have the gear on it.

It is about people who can’t even stagger clanrats and normal chaos marauders, yes then people have every right to be annoyed about it.

25

People do give a crap, for some reason. I remember being kicked from veteran games when trying to level up my other characters.

It goes like this:
Some people who think recruit is challenging give crap about level in recruit.
Some people who think veteran is challenging give crap about level in veteran.
Some people who think challenging is challenging give crap about level in challenging.
Some people who think legend is challenging give crap about level in legend.

Thus we can formulate that:
Some people who think [difficulty] is challenging give crap about level in [difficulty].

I have anecdotally found that the people that play [difficulty] and are vocal about someone not being high enough level to play on [difficulty], are the biggest sources of concern in regards to completing the mission. For example yesterday I played champion with players level 25 (me), 13, 17 and 30. The level 30 asked why the lower level players were playing champion, because the “talents are needed”. At the end of the run the level 30 player had the damage taken equal to the rest of the group combined.

2 Likes
26

I feel like on our teamspeak. :telephone_receiver:

Problem isnt good people joining legend with lvl 2.
Problem is bad people joining legend with lvl 2.

All “good” people will for their own good go legend with level 30. Or wont try to push into legend on level 2 and will go with premade. (I said before, my friends are taking me with them into legend, and its pretty much no difference to them if I am 30 or 3 :zipper_mouth_face: )

Problem is people who are trying to go legend as soon as they can, it also comes with friendly fire, not paying attention, flaming, ragequit mid missions AND as a bonus low power level and no talents.

I dont know if someone said it before but “Everything can work” is quite famous gaming quote. And everything works, you have soloable raid bosses in WoW, dark souls universe is full of challenge runs, you have unkillable builds in diablo. But thats minority.

For majority there is mechanic working since the dawn of humanity: “Level requirements”. Be it iLvL from WoW, MMR in PvP oriented games or just :skull_and_crossbones: instead of enemy level. It is there and its exactly for these reasons.
One reason is so people dont get hurt by going where they shouldnt.
Second reason is so they dont make trouble for other people.

Everyone will be happier, noone will get hurt.
There isnt a single reason to go into legend with low character, and if you want to do that, hosting or private game will allow it to you, but not on quickplay.
There is already enough trouble finding reliable people through quickplays so you dont want more trouble.

Howgh:vulcan_salute:

27

It is not unique to Vermintide. It has to do with that people don’t trust strangers to have any kind of “skill”. “ancdetoctal” doesn’t mean anything since it can be that they just are dumb, but can I blame them? The game doesn’t explain that well what the difference between veteran and champion. You only learn about some “minimum” requirement.

Jumping from veteran to champion is kinda dumb if you still in the 1-190 power level “loot area” since the game don’t explain that if it is a 300 chest or 200 chest, you won’t get better then a 200 chest loot anyway since you in the “cap” zone that only increase about 1-10. If you want to progress it is still better to just do veteran at that point if you consider “risk vs reward” with strangers.

And veteran is really not a big deal since the main difference in champion and above is quite frankly when vermintide becomes how the game is supposed to be. Since let’s be honest, you don’t really need to have much concept of anything in recruit/veteran. You don’t even need to know how to use block and dodge and do just fine.

There is more than just “challenge” that increases but how you play.

  • You can’t just spam ranged since the friendly fire kicks in now, so now you need to learn melee. That include dodges and block etc

  • Even the clanrats and maruders can now take more then 1 hit from faster weapons, meaning you see less people whine about the elf. It honestly is the main thing in lower difficulty then champion is that it is better just to take the fastest weapon. You will notice that a lot of elfs in lower difficulty run duel weapons but change to glaive later on.

  • You can’t all just stand on each other.

  • Not healing everywhere and some of the "normal " healing spots, there is nothing now.

I think a way to improve this is to add their power to their picture or something that indicates that they are a safe bet. I honestly don’t want to spend 30 min on a “gamble” when I can get safer bet in less than 1 min. It would also help if we could get anything that shows us that they can do it.

It would also help if the game explained “anything” to when you should go on then a vague “power limit to join X”. The game does a very poor job to learn people how to even do decent in melee so I am not surprised either with players find the champion and above to be more of a challenge or get smashed on their first runs.

It doesn’t even explain there is friendly fire and is too much “we assume you played vermintide 1, so you know this” mentality in this game.

28

But anecdotes is all we have. The fact that other people don’t preface that their arguments stem from anecdotes does not change the fact that that’s exactly what they do. Unless of course someone has kept statistics that can are verifiable (eg. have a attached recording) and has enough samples to matter, but to this no one has shown me their research.

If you want to progress it is still better to just do veteran at that point if you consider “risk vs reward” with strangers.

If you want to progress in skill, it’s better to jump to champion though. Skill matters more to me than loot. I am more content about the fact that I am a pretty proficient VT1 player (somewhat content) than that I have X red items (don’t really care). Skill is also something I was able to carry over from VT1 to VT2, while loot was not.

It would also help if the game explained “anything” to when you should go on then a vague “power limit to join X”.

IMO “power limit to play” is pretty clear in that it is the limit required to play power level wise. The game should of course tell that monsters have health multiplier 2x, spawn rate is x3, friendly fire is enabled, etc. But it’s pretty hard to gauge even with that info if you can manage: You’re left to try it out. I don’t think you should be punished for trying out if you can manage. To me taking on new challenges is a part of gaming even if I fail at them.

It doesn’t even explain there is friendly fire and is too much “we assume you played vermintide 1, so you know this” mentality in this game.

It does explain friendly fire: The crosshair flashes green and the elf goes like “Stop that Kruber, OR ELSE”. Sure there is no “Friend fire” -tutorial explaining it, but you will quickly realize that shooting friendlies is wrong if you have anything resembling a brain.

29

Even if anecdotes is all we have, I could also debunk it as easy with saying that they are a minority and the majority of players are not like that from my own anecdotes.

There are some of the research on online behavior and there was a good one about “WoW and Itemlevel” but I can’t seem to find it, but it is about how players behavior before and after item level was introduced changed.

The general point was that loot oriented players or players that just “farmed” it was more inclined to put a higher requirement then needed for a faster and smoother run.

While skill focused based players could not care since they were confident in their skill and still enjoying the content and would just replace people after they screw up.

And the casual just did what the game told them.

You might progress in skill, but for other, it can be loot or other motivators.

I have no way to know if you are a VT1 veteran or not any reliable information I get from ingame that I can trust that and I can’t also assume most players are either.

I really wish this was a purely skill based game but it is not. Stagger amount on a lower power level player can end up with them just being in the way and you need to peel off even the smaller packs since they need space to even handle them and dodge weave and this is not always a luxury you have, so they can be ended up in a dogpile.

My other problem is that there is not a great way to introduce the game mechanics for newer players, even the tutorial is pretty basic. I can’t always assume every player I met is going to go online to search it up, there is a lot of people who sit down and play and don’t care.

Not everyone puts that much time to “try out”, I would love to try out much more but I also limited the time I have to the game.

I don’t find there to be any good excuse for them to not give a better description. A major one was when tooltips were just flat out wrong and people did in good faith take talents that were not correct (like ranger healing drought that got changed to bombs but they forgot to change the tooltip to around patch 1.03)

Even target dummies don’t trigger a lot of talents or even hit from attacks( Making skills like slayer attack annoying to test) making it even harder to test outside of real games or bot games.

The friendly fire could easily be in red warning when you select champion or legend. The “jabber” easily get drowned out in the background and it is apparently not that clear for everyone if it is jabber or saying something useful.

I played with a lot of players that flat out did not know and needed to tell them about it.

I really don’t disagree with you, my point is more or less than they could be done a lot better job with descriptions in this game or even explained how loot and such works.

It is just important to know that not everyone is in this game for “skill”. I honestly only in this game for fun since I don’t find this game to be that dreadful hard when I play with friends, even on Legend. But I can see it be much harder if you going solo.

Loot doesn’t even motivate me but it can motivate others, since I think they did a very poor job on it and taken a few steps good in 1 direction(character specific loot), but also a few backward steps in another direction(alter and contracts). But I am also happy that you can still play the game fine with even 500 power level white items on legend so they not necessary to be decked out in red.

A problem with this “item-level addiction” some people have is that you only get a good reward for completing the mission, breeding a “I want a group so I am able to succeed” mentality so players do get very picky who they want to play with especially if they run into a loose streak with randoms that was under level and giving them a bias for the reason behind the “failure” that could be as easy that they are the problem.

Brightside, you would probably not get along that well with that player. So you might have dodged a bullet. There is also a lot of good places to find good players to group up with to avoid this problem.

edit: formating on this forum on mobile is annoying…

30

You cannot debunk anecdotes with anecdotes. You might contest conclusions drawn from other anecdotes, but you cannot debunk anything other than obviously false generalizations: eg. “All low level players are bad”. (On the other hand these conclusions drawn from anecdotes are, of course, not necessarily factual).

I really wish this was a purely skill based game but it is not. Stagger amount on a lower power level player

The solution to this is to implement power level requirements that are in the developers’ opinion sufficient to play the difficulty. There is no need for each player in the quick queue to be able to enforce their own opinion of “sufficient power level” when the developers have provided one, IMO.

Not everyone puts that much time to “try out”, I would love to try out much more but I also limited the time I have to the game.

I meant “trying out” as in just playing the game with a different setup from before. If you try out playing legend 3 times you can pretty easily draw conclusions whether you need more practice or not. I am not talking about reverse engineering the game statistics.

It is just important to know that not everyone is in this game for “skill”. I honestly only in this game for fun since I don’t find this game to be that dreadful hard when I play with friends, even on Legend. But I can see it be much harder if you going solo.

I doubt anyone is in the game for “skill”. It’s just fun to get better at something (for me more fun than getting a “red” item). It’s not like it’s some skill you can market or put in your CV: “Skills: Cata level player in VT1”.

A problem with this “item-level addiction” some people have is that you only get a good reward for completing the mission, breeding a “I want a group so I am able to succeed” mentality so players do get very picky who they want to play with especially if they run into a loose streak with randoms that was under level and giving them a bias for the reason behind the “failure” that could be as easy that they are the problem.

The question is: Should quick queue cater to these people in favor of some other demographic (eg. people playing for casual fun)? In my opinion: No.

31

Joined a champion game with 3 guys level 30. They kept kicking me because I was level 21. When I told them I have 540 PL and they should be playing legend at that point, they still kept kicking me because “low level”.
I had quite a laugh at that situation.

Only level restriction should be on legend. That’s where character talents actually matter.

32

You can definitely “debunk” an anecdote with another anecdote.

But I am not interested in going on that since that is going off topic on semantics. I still agree with you it is not any good grounds.

That was my point from my first post and when people bypass it and “forgets” to put on equipment they will be much lower than the limit. Give them a warning or just don’t start the game before they put on gear for the minimum limit. The game got pretty low limit now anyway and I am fine with them. It is just when they “forget” to put on and we get into the game.

You can’t really solve the player opinion when we have a “host game” way quick match, as long as they have the power to kick, they can do anything. The best option is just to be the host.

Fair enough, but it doesn’t solve the problem that I have no indication right now that you can handle it if you underlevel. Heck If I just did have something simple as a power level below the player border in the lobby and I can see on your level 5 kruber have over 200 power level combined, I have no problem taking you with me on a champion.

But if I only have the information " A level 5 kruber", I don’t know. I just don’t want to play games and get into it and we need to more or less carry one character when at best they can handle is slaves.

That is exactly who the “skill” player is, someone who find it fun to get better or take on a challenge. Rather adapt to the challenge then compensate with gear.

I don’t need a “CV”. I just want a way to assure we get someone to join who put on gear to get past the minimum power level if their character is low level on champion and above. I am completely fine if you play your lvl 5 but can compensate the level difference with gear.

I never said it will favor any demographic and not sure how you read into that. I just explained how the “loot” mindset and why some of the reason they get “picky” with power level and kick people.

If they wanted to a demographic queue, they would make different ques that match players on presets.

IMO quickmatch is quickmatch, you can’t really complain that you get what you get. There is still option to join groups manually or even find like-minded individuals and form groups from that, like some of the discord groups or on this forum.

33

Seriously. You are meant to cooperate with your teammates, not ridicule them because you think they’re not “gud enuf” to play with you. Maybe instead of asking for an anti-social auto-ban function, OP should just talk to his team. And if playing with randoms is really so painful, then make the match private.

34

Its not that big of a deal to be honest.

Champion is easy and if a guy has 300 gear and has a couple of level 30’s he should be able to play since he meets the gear requirements and is a experienced player.

The only issue is the talents though. I think people should give them a chance first, if they cannot keep up there is always a vote kick option.

I myself have been kicked from a champ game for being a " low level " and I play Legendary everyday on my dwarf and Kruber. Probably have more power level on my lvl 10 BH than most 20-25 level players as well.

35

While there are some people that are like yourself who probably do need to be level 30 with top gear to have a less than 50% chance of completing Champion, there’s plenty of competent players who started clearing Champion as soon as their power level allowed them access.

1 Like
36

I don’t know if the issue was resolved, but you could get into games without the proper power level by:

  • quick play with a character that does have the proper power level
  • be linked with a group that has your hero occupied
  • select to join as a different hero that doesn’t satisfy the requirements
  • gain access without qualifying
1 Like
37

Don’t need to do that. Once you unlock a difficulty you can play at that difficulty no matter what hero power you have. So you can queue up to legend on a level 1 character with no gear as long as you have unlocked legend on another character.

1 Like
38

Exactly.

They can’t even join unless they have the required power anyway.

Just play the game and try to enjoy it, win or lose.

See how all this levelling rubbish actually makes the game less fun to play?

39

They can, they need one hero who once met the requirements, then all their toons can join regardless of eqiupment (unless that was patched in the latest patch).

40

They would be wearing their artifacts, unless they’re unaware.

Just play with whoever is there, if they’re undergunned they’ll leave soon enough, or you can ask them to.

Most people are reasonable if you treat them fairly.