vet change was overall good. I kind of miss vet’s Get Back In The Fight; it should be improved and repositioned(for example moved to the right side), not replaced with ranged cleave(which does nothing when you use low cleave weapons and high cleave ones typically don’t need it).
the revive was buffed so those of you too afraid to drop down a ledge then died there might be saved.
feel free to record your own gameplay and actually time how much time passes in between each use of shout and how many cooldown reduction skill from yourself and others is involved to make it happen. if you were spamming it, you probably had like a 10-20s cooldown after reductions, which means the 10s increase is not actually 10s and is more like 5s.
Honestly I barely notice the change of cooldown. Haven’t tried using revive yet, but this is one of the more neutral nerfs, IMO. And Vet is my most played class.
I disagree. First off, they did give various things back. And if you ever played with the revive talent before, you’d know that there’s time for both. I have, and you do a bit of both. I think the Vet balance was in the right direction. VoC was picked the vast majority of the time over the others, and probably still will be honestly. Like, trade-offs are good for balance, strengths and weaknesses you know. Plus, there’s some skill expression in knowing when to use it and save it. Complaining about a change that adds depth is kind of lame.
I’ve yet to play with the new Plasma, but if anything I think they buffed it due to benefiting from infinite cleave being sort of rare, and charged shots having a more reasonable ammo efficiency. I’m still not sure if charged are better. Need to test it all, and I’m kind of on a mini break from DT.
Edit: I forgot that they nerfed the wield time. That actually is rough on higher difficulties. I’ll have to try it out, because it’s hard to get a good idea of how much a .15s difference will make, but it might make it a nerf overall since an extra talent might be necessary to invest to lower the wield time at higher levels. Before the most recent patch, playing the plasma gun with a skilled fast wield shooter like a bolt pistol scum, or dual pistols or something results in them beating you to the shot most of the time due to wield time. It was kind of awkward. I was previously able to get away with only taking the wield time talent on my heavy bolter build, while still always providing the special/range sniping utility.
Having played in Aurics on the new mode, I can confirm the CD to VoC is crippling. The fact alone that the cooldown regen talent is giga useless due to the packs of enemies means it has a constant uptime for a brief window, but that still only extends the duration for the faster cooldown. I think my stacks had it ticking for something like 8 seconds which still wasn’t enough to save our squad when the map hit us with it’s poorly laid out spawn zones and dogshit parkour that doesn’t work.
Not really, lmfao. Still a justified nerf. People really are babies on here. I’ve been playing Vet on Havoc-40’s. Didn’t notice it much at all if anything. You’re lucky they didn’t go further with it actually. With being one of the most OP ULT’s just about.
The worst part of it is that at this point FS have already rebalanced mobs multiple times to deal more damage and be more aggressive so that they could make a dent in gold toughness - making life of everybody not using VoC or Chorus an endless suffering due to how brittle they feel. Pigeonholing everybody into using just a few meta builds if they want to have a pleasant game experience.
I liked proposal made by somebody earlier, about making both VoC and Chorus two charges abilities using their current CD for charge replenishment (VoC’s CD can be reduced back to 30s then) - but make them apply golden toughness only on double-activation (so spending all 2 charges at once). Effectively that would increase only golden toughness application cooldown, and would also add much more strategy to those abilities’ usage. And then also nerf mobs’ offensive potential down a notch, to compensate for that.
So, I may be a bit biased admittedly & I’m not trying to sound elitest here at all. I do think most people that play this are not great at the game & use these abilities as crutches because they’re perhaps not as talented skill-wise. I totally can understand from that prospective… Actually, most people I’ve talked with privately think that Elite HP buff was a bad idea in general. I think they should revert that back because it made even more weapons/abilities obsolete in my view essentially, we’re facing damage sponges which kind of sucks knowing how the armor clown carts spawn, so if they revert it, we wouldn’t need to even touch VOC. I think it’s enough even with the old HP pool. But besides that, I’m not sure I’m understanding you… So, the first VOC charge knocks them back & give you full toughness then the second VOC charge it gives the same, but only with the full gold toughness, knocking back & the CDR after the second charge? That seems very OP to me if I’m being entirely honest, lol… Actually, even more so than what they had back then.
Afaicr (I’m too lazy too look for the original topic), first activation would work just as a regular VoC without the golden toughness subnode. Then you would be given a short time window to press the ability button again - that 2nd activation wouldn’t trigger the usual VoC effect, but only would add golden toughness, still spending your second charge. After that short window would expire, if you activate ability again, that 2nd charge would be spent for just a 2nd VoC (no golden toughness).
So you would need to replenish both charges before you’ll be able to apply golden toughness again. What means 60s (with the old CD of VoC). That’s if you’ll be able to excercise enough restrain and not spend its charge after the 1st one will be replenished in 30s. If you’ll keep activating it off CD (for self heal and stagger), you may never actually be able to apply golden toughness. That’s the extra strategical part, as I see it, either apply off CD for short term gains - or wait for full 2 CDs for full potential.
Hmm. It sounds interesting. It all depends on this time frame in between the 2 charges & how long before you can go again. Because if that’s a short fuse, I’d probably consider this OP depending on that specific aspect.
So, all this talk about VOC could’ve been avoided if they didn’t buff enemies to this degree making them tankier & more dangerous essentially. So, I’ve been playing Vet lately & I really don’t notice a massive difference within this 5-second CDR they’re talking about, but then again, I do have obvious experience in this game, so I might not go down as often as maybe most people? I could be just being completely short-sighted on this whole thing & coming from the prospective of people who already know what they’re doing & would just laugh at a 5-second CDR nerf. I personally don’t see the outrage, I suppose. I guess if you’re average at this game, okay, sure. I’m genuinely not trying to be a crazy egomaniac here, that’s just how I see this. 5-seconds? I mean… It’s a nothingburger to me. I actually laughed out loud at the OP’s comments. It’s just like, come on… So, Ogryn’s been bullied by nerfs a million times & I’m like okay that sucks & I keep movin’ on.
Well there is dealing with shooters. Oh wait - anyone with access to a headhunter or lasgun can do the exact same thing. Or just have the hive scum deal with them.
Highlighting elites? Oh right - everyone can do that and the extra damage doesn’t make a difference in how fast they go down.
Ranged damage on boss-types? Right - get more damage swinging a parade poker.
Grenade spam? Seems to be about it. Of course said grenades aren’t always useful (ex shredder vs. garden modifier) so its hit-and-miss.
Not sure why they couldn’t have done the simple “fix” - gold toughness doesn’t stack or replenish until its completely spent. Problem - if there even was one - solved. Instead they went for the ham-fisted idiots approach that is just going to cause more whining down the line. Because if VoC becomes moot the players using it aren’t going to suddenly become super marksman bots spending 90% of the mission cheerleading the melees on until a big bunch of shooters shows up. Nope, they’re going to swap to Infiltrate and if people thought the first round of getting aggro-dumped was worth throwing a tantrum about, the next one will be much worse.
Personally I think whoever is calling the shots for these ideas doesn’t understand about knock-on effects. They think they see a problem or get a to-do list with them, do zero actual investigation, throw down a solution with no testing, then move on to the next project. Only to get blindsided by the negative results and, in grand human fashion, instead of thinking “oops, need to fix that” they get hyper-defensive and start blaming the people complaining along with refusing to pause their new focus to go fix the issue. Any fixes they grudgingly do try end up being the old too little too late and too niche to actually address the issue. Saw plenty of that going back to Everquest. Loved my ranger but the idiotic decision to not give the class a boost in defense skill to mirror the other hybrid tanks offense boost with the first expansion made practical tanking a pain. And because it took… I want to say five exapansions to fix that bullcrap the class never regained it old luster as a viable tank in the eyes of the playerbase. Classic one dumb (and spiteful ) decision that didn’t get fixed until too late creating bigger issues down the road.
Seeing this sort of thing here makes me happy I have a new time waster and only check back periodically out of vain hope. I like a game where the developers response to players creating a new approach to something isn’t automatic nerfs but “as long as its not exploiting, have fun and there might be some new toys to help in the next update”.
wrong, being elitist is wanting but not being able to.
putting money where your mouth is by doing what is preached is being part of the elite and that comes with every right to
seeing such takes over and over again.
how about putting that energy into adapting and not needing those crutches?
after all it’s only a necessary effort in higher difficulties that should seperate the weed from the chaff at the cost of tremendous effort, not abusing the flavor of the month op stuff.
everything below havoc it’s fair game for everyone, seen veterans getting through auric maelstroms without ever using any ult, at this point I doubt the noob even took a look at his loadout once.
but end of the match he was dragged to the shuttle, so I guess he booked that under “I helped”
Okay, sure, you really want me to sound elitist here? You’re probably a scub wanting this game to be an easier experience for yourself with the obvious crutch of gold toughness. There, happy? You’re welcome.
Vet is not an easy character currently but a skilled guy with a proper build can do a huge ton of damage and safe the team from nearly any specials or disablers being a threat.
Im not able to do that myself, but i lnow people which are able to play vet really good and out damage psykers or hive scum players on havoc 40 missions.
It all comes down to play the vet role properly with a good team, situational awareness and high headshot accuracy. Most good vets dont use that talent: “Voice of Command” at all.
So stay curious, experiment, learn from others (twitch streams) … every fault is a learning on how its not done.
BTW - the changes (nerfs) for the Talent were necessary as this talent was way to strong and supports bad behavior while gaming.
a veteran can be most supportive in team with smoke and shout.also,plasma can be used to deal with special enemy.just leave crushers to your ogre friends and psykers
BUT THE KARKING FAT SHARK JUST NERF BOTH OF MY FAVORITE CLASSES
Elitist is defined by the ‘elites’ having more say in how things go. This is the big problem with balancing a game with a large community, because the people that don’t eat sleep and breath Darktide get picked on for wanting to have fun and enjoy their game that they paid the same amount for as the 1% who lives in Havoc 50 Auric XXX Alpha Maelstrom.
And you saying this:
You have a twisted concept of what being ‘elite’ is considering you’re suggesting that people who spend exponentially more time in game and play at the bleeding edge of difficulty have a right to bully, demean, talk down to, and judge others who complain that their experience is negatively affected by gameplay changes. It’s not a dark souls “git gud” kind of comment when that game literally has personal agency to learn how to defeat a boss as opposed to difficulty levels in this game that can be affected by any number of other external factors. Teammates, the AI director, game bugs, pathing, there’s so many things that can go wrong that are outside of the (individual) player control that this mentality makes you a scummy person.
That’s what the build discussion threads are for, what the discord is for, and ultimately if there ISN’T a way around it, there is no ‘adapting’ in the sense of “the only option is play with the changes.” And again, using crutches as a derogatory term and jerking yourself off, like an elitist.
literally more elitist degradation to other players, saying anyone using VoC and complaining “weeding out the chaff” for using FOTM OP abilities (because the other two are significantly weaker and don’t contribute as much to the TEAM in a TEAM game).
So you’re saying you’re in the right because you saw a vet get carried and he never used his ability, therefore, “vets don’t need their ability to clear auric maelstrom because I was in a match where 3 players carried an afk.” Which means by your statement, vet isn’t even worth playing.
funny, somewhere around the bonfire age leaders were picked cause they were the superior warriors, hunters etc, not some scrawny useless dude that’s best fed to the sabretooth as decoy
must be heading fast towards devolution when now sub-standards should be the measure in which the maximum difficulty has to be “balanced”
over the “I wanna have fun” slacker crowd ? true shocker indeed.
mind you, there’s plenty of settings to stick to that befit various levels of skill and certain nerfs aint even noticeable.
if we talk about crutches and charity buffs that bismirch the accomplishment of the truly skilled, then yeah they should be nerfed into oblivion and force a reality check on every fake power fantasy.
do singleplayer games if you want to “feel”, multiplayer you’re under scrutiny to “perform”.
and no, being coop doesn’t mean you’re obligated to more than what is due based on your personal skill.
otherwise why even bother with people if it aint a fair comparison?
being unable to control your character in a useful way you have no business wasting the time of other players in that mode and certain abilities shouldn’t cover for this lack of abilities.
team my rear, up until havoc 40 no one gives a flying about what you bring into the match or if you’re even there.
what bothers people is dudes getting more for less since it’s an unfair element that rewards lazy playstyles.
scum with boombringer in auric maelstrom is a nuisance, not a boon.
vet with plasma cleaving through everything when others have to get in with mechanical skills isnt a welcome “help” its a disturbance at best.
havoc 40 premades is where teams are playing, rando roulette on anything lower… add friendly fire and see what happens.
oh boohoo, the bad world isn’t extending me a hand.
bet you cover for your coworker on a regular basis so he can call in sick after a binch drinking weekend…no?
so.why should I not expect equal effort for equal results in the very time of my life that counts the most, my SPARE time?
not playing the game to socialize but to keep my skills sharp.
seeing someone better I learn from that if I can, seeing someone go the easy route I say my piece equally
well if that what it takes staying honest and not cuddle everyone across the finish line and cheer for a participation trophy, no sweat off my back.
back in the day you got beaten down on the regular so you learned the hard and efficient way.
quake 3 was years of being the runt before winning tournaments.
nowadays its “scummy” not granting the same respect to every participator
word of advice, ALWAYS expect them to f-up in the most spectacular way at the most inconvenient time.
YOU have control over
where to be
what to engage
manage your resources (if that means pick a crate before the questionable dude does, race him to it)
when to cut your losses and retreat instead of a yolo rezz
and many more things that help you succeed when others falter.
not in havoc 40 on the regular mind you but auric maelstrom and below IS winnable with pugs under any circumstance.
I fail at it regularly too, but the difference is every loss is a kick in my ass to do better next time, not complain about why it went south.
maybe its a generational thing but today’s “everyone can become everything” wishful thinking is in stark contrast to why there is 1 heavy weight champion, 15 on stage of mr olympia, 1 gold medal in every olympic contest etc.
instead of counting me among them by wanting to bend the requirements, I rather stick forever out of reach but do my utmost to get there.
after all whats the summit if not the top?
not everyone’s meant to reach it and that’s not only fine, it’s basic logic.
mind you I don’t count myself among the top %, those days are 25 years past.
what motivates me is SEEING those top % and still feeling the passion to break them, even if that never comes to pass.
THATS the main difference and why I don’t care to mince words nor for anything less that mirrors the performance of those top %
as a poster across the whole wall of my old gym didn’t make me look anywhere close to that, it made me push through pain, injury, not succumbing to cheat meals and stay focused.
it made me “my best”
final edit:
what might make it a bit clearer for you:
I dont see myself part of the elite but am a firm believer it’s this elite that must set the rules for the maximum and pinnacle of the game in order to put any worth to pursuing that goal.
if that means I get sorted out due to lacking skills, so be it, at least it was an honorable effort.
the hoard aint worth when there’s no dragon to slay to obtain in.
about what you bring into the match or if you’re even there.
