Another thread complaining about ammo goblins

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

realistically speaking, picking up ammo and sharing it between your team members is more intuitive and realistic rather then “we can all go over to the same spot and pick up the exact same box of ammo”
if your going to do that, you might as well just have ammo refill stations, because that is essentially, what you would be doing, but having a bunch of tiny ammo refill stations all over the place
to compensate for everyone being able to take ammo from the same refill you would need to remove 1/4 the number of ammo containers on the map OR only give 1/4 the amount of ammo per pickup

i don’t exactly see how that is more convenient then “anyone can pick up the ammo, and the ammo will be automatically shared between players without you needing to think about it”
this is a fast paced game. i don’t want to be waiting around, searching the map for ammo crates more then i currently already am, i don’t want a game where every single player has to go to every single ammo crate, it is beneficial for players to split slightly while roaming the map to collect resources etc, speeds up progress through the missions. which are already quite long as it is, especially if you have a slow team

remember how their were tutorials in the simulacrum?
well, if your really that concerned about players “not knowing where they are getting ammo from” you can add that to the tutorial

also if a player is wondering “where am i getting this free ammo from” it takes those exact words in game, for someone else to say “ammo pickups get shared between all of us”

when i started the game. i had no idea if i had to pick up the plasteel and diamantine or if it was a group thing. or if it was a first in first served type of thing where if they picked it up, would i get it or not? i had no idea, and it took me 2 seconds to ask a question and figure it out

the game has already solidified that, resource pickups are shared between the team, if someone picks up 10 plasteel EVERYONE gets 10 plasteel, considering that, THIS is the concept the game is going for, it would be SUPER weird to have the ammo pickups work in the way you are saying

you should keep in mind that, just because the mechanic works well in whatever other game you mentioned, does not mean it would work well in this game, they are 2 different games. you should also keep in mind that, just because “you” are familiar with the system in the other game, does not mean 'everyone" will be familiar with the system in the other game, your intuition about ammo pickups, is not “everyone’s” intuition about ammo pick ups, not everyone has your exactly experience
in fact more experienced gamers will be familiar with “multiple” resource systems, and simply just ask the question “what resource system does this game use” when they first start playing the game

22

maybe we can use psykers to recharge out lasgun batteries, a fun secret hidden mechanic where you get 0.5% of your ammo back while in lightning

23

Yes but it’s more work for FS to code and theorize over / test the correct rules and values when they can just add a pre-existing attribute to the tins.

Also, if you can pick up ammo and a certain percentage goes to someone else, people will instinctively ask questions about how exactly it works.

If everyone can pick up the a tin in the same location, that is far easer to wrap your head around and there are no followup questions.

I’m making the point that math with followup questions is harder to understand for the average player than something as simple as “tins can now be picked up by everyone once rather than just once”

24

the answer to the follow up question is “the people who need it more, get more”

25

your literally arguing complexity between things you don’t know about and things you don’t know about
you think that, sharing the ammo is MORE complex for the devs then specifically coding in a way for the server to let players pick up the same ammo tin? you are literally changing fundamentally HOW the pickup system is working to begin with
no longer are things shared team wide, now people have to pick up things individually and everyone cna pick up the same things
jees, your asking the devs to do MORE work with your suggestion not less

26

ok, no :slight_smile:

the way ravaged art woks in VT2 already exists where as your solution does factually not exist anywhere and there are a lot of values to test and get right + there are a lot of situations to have to account for.

We both are asking for them to do work but I find it hard to believe that your solution (which they will not just copy even if they decided to do it that way) is supposedly less work for them than simply coping over a behaviour they have previously figured out.

You’re trying to tell me that introducing a new system is easier than porting over an item property for a pickup? Please

27

alright let me explain the balance to you so you understand

the proposed changes I’m talking about would work as followed
the game treats ammo pickups the same in most situations except for this situation here
“a players is trying to pick up MORE AMMO then they need”
when “this” situation occurs “THEN” share the excess ammo between the players, for whoever needs it the most OR however the F you want to work that out i don’t really care how you want to work that out mathematically. it could be as simple as, it JUST goes to the player with the lowest % of ammo, i really don’t care the math’s was just a suggestion
it WOULD be a simple addition for the game
the game quite literally ALLREADY detects when players take too much ammo, because they have voice lines linked to that
you start there, detecting when he players take too much ammo, and then EDIT that code, to give the remaining ammo to someone else
it’s like simple a mathematical question of, taking ammo out of the bag, handing the bag tot he next person. and letting them take ammo out of the “mathematical bag”

1 Like
28

so basically what your saying is, remove single pick up ammo piles and just replace everything with just having more ammo packs (but ammo packs that cant be moved or something?

i do agree with the color change tho, like having your ammo counter colored based on how low you are
sometimes i can’t remember if I’m low ammo or not because i don’t keep track of how much i have been getting back from ammo crates, and i cant remember what i started with
only happens with new guns tho, once i use it a few times i will remember

29

i feel like the pro outweighs the con in this situation
just because you “have” low ammo, does not mean your throwing it away, you may have killed a ton of enemies with that ammo, or taken down bosses, elites etc, keeping your team alive by, dealing with the enemies that are tough to deal with close range
yeah if someone is just, shooting their gun off into the distance for no reason, then, well yeah then they are waiting ammo
and technically. you could still be malicious by “waiting ammo this way” idling with a bunch of ammo, basically. you can troll by making yourself look like a complete idiot, but not gonna lie. you can already do that in this game regardless of the ammo stuff. that is what the kick feature is for

either way it would solve the issue of accidently taking ammo when you don’t need it, and it would help stop the ammo goblins to some degree

30

I already understood from the initial explenation, I am not confused by the proposal or the math or methodics you want to use.

I am merely making the point that there is a simpler, more easy to understand, solution for most, other people

That’s all.

31

Could the whole ammo thing not just be improved with large caches alongside med stations? And remove bags and mags from in game.

They could be infinite ammo. Or idk equivalent of a large bag with four charges.

Then no one need fight over them at the designated spot, but you’ve still a limited ammo pool between refills.

The whole scavenging for resources thing I get, but it’s still a little incongruous that pristine packs of universal ammo are hanging around in chests anyway.

  • edit - realized I’d suggested the same thing as McCree
32

Ah no, more that there are some ammo packs that are just piles that cannot be deployed, like 1-2 pr. mission.
Like how we have fixed medicae stations that always have 4 heals so everyone gets one.
In the same manner, just place a pile of ammo everyone can loot once each.
Ofc it would still not solve the moment-to-moment issue of ammo goblins, but it would lessen the blow of a team getting completely depleted halfway thru.

1 Like
33

Agreed.

34

"I resupply my Blades of Faith with ammo pickups":nerd_face:
"I resupply my Blades of Faith with Elite melee kills":muscle:

35

Such as? Remember, we’re talking about scenarios where it’s going to happen enough in a single run that people would be the target of the voicelines repeatedly.

Like, if you’re getting them directed at you 4-5+ times in a run, I’m sure most would agree that it’s pretty clear that you’re hogging the ammo.

People just like doin’ stuff. Like, everyone always runs to be the one to complete the auspex minigame or press buttons or carry canisters or whatever, despite those being less interesting than just continuing to kill things. Collecting currency pickups makes people feel like they’re achieving something.

36

Increasing ammo pools universally would help.

Considering the number of enemies in higher difficulties and the way the talents (at least on Ogryn) suggest you can have builds that mostly ranged ammo hogs, I think devs should take a look at the current ammo system.

Side note: I stepped away from Auric Mael in pubs and my experience has been way better. There’re still people with blue, purple weapons in auric HI or shocktroop, but overall much easier to carry and the ammo situation is much better. We need some sort of ranked system for auric mael. It actually requires people who don’t hog ammo and know how to stay together.

37

And also fix ammo return to calculate off total ammo and not reserve ammo, please. It’s a meaningless punishment for weapons with a larger magazine capacity, doubly so if the reserve isn’t increased to compensate (coughplasmacough).

2 Likes
38

Vermintide solved the ammo-goblin problem in a few ways.

  • Ammo crates were occasionally present within maps that would permit the entire team to fully resupply. So you could get a breath of fresh air occasionally even if an ammo goblin was taking every pickup.

  • Ranged-centric characters usually had access to mechanics to regenerate their own ammo and become largely self-sufficient in terms of ammo supply.

  • Players had the option of upgrading their weapon with the conservative shooter “blessing” (using darktide’s terminology), which would replenish 1 ammo on headshot. This let players really stretch their last handful of bullets if they took the time to definitively secure headshots.

  • The Scrounger blessing would replenish 5% of ammo on crit ranged attack, which provided another ammo sustain option if you simply wanted a virtually larger ammo pool or had a means to boost your crit rate.

In darktide, you’re at the whims of ammo goblins permitting you to pickup ammo boxes or for the veteran to bring the survivalist aura (a thousand poxes open any vet who thinks that the other two options are remotely competitive with survivalist. The 5% damage aura is a red flag about players in its own right).

2 Likes
39

I stopped running into ammo issues after playing primarily aurics. Average teammates there have much better game sense and know who need it most.

The system sucked in October when I picked up the game again and the xbots kept on grabbing every magazine from my vet while wasting entire clips on a white mob (one was even shooting dead ones on the ground for some Emperor forsaken reason), but I should have queued for auric sooner.

TL;DR It’s a good system for competent players but not low skilled ones. UI Mods also help since you can actually see the actual ammo missing not just the crap color coding.

2 Likes
40

Let’s use World of Warcraft strategies here and frame it as bonus rewards for good behaviour instead of punishment for undesired behaviour.

1 Like