Ah yes. So we can wait another 6 months to a year for the overhaul to be overhauled again. Forgive the sarcasm but I can’t stress enough how it seems that you took zero feedback from back when this was announced.
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I think VT2 and L4D both have modding scenes they owe a lot to. Something that Darktide isn’t looking to realistically have. I do think some degree of progression is a good idea and when well implemented improve experiences like DT on average for players.
I’m definitely not gonna tell you you should be happy with what we’re getting or that you’re wrong to criticise what we’ve seen so far, but I’m not sure no progression at all is the best hill to die on here?
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I generally like the new system as it‘s presented, I just don’t get why there has to be any RNG left in it?
Why can‘t we just have free reign in assigning all 380 points across the possible stats in our own, preferred combinations? We can‘t fill all 5*80=400 anyway.
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It’s of course a matter of taste and opinion as well. But if we were going to have grind, then we should have maxed weapons. Remove the base brunt RNG, and let us at least unlock actually maxed weapons through grind, if we’re going to have grind.
Part of why this system irks me so much, is that it’s keeping significant RNG, removing shortcuts, enforcing grind - while at the same time making sure any and all playtime on a maxed weapon is meaningless.
It’s the worst of both worlds, imo. For the people who love grind, they might well ‘feel bad’ when playing with a maxed weapon. For those who hate grind, they will be annoyed every time a new weapon family comes out, knowing the game is actively gatekeeping their progress. On purpose. Maliciously. For retention.
TBH every single system they design/redesign for Darktide seems purposebuilt to enable ‘skip grind’ boosters or other micro transactions, but without actually selling those services. It’s baffling design.
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I think what would go over really well for everyone, is that when you gain enough XP to earn a mastery point that you can apply that mastery point to any weapon weapon.
This would let you use weapon type X to earn and stockpile mastery to be able to upgrade/enhance weapon type Y later on and get it more enhanced from the get-go.
The reason for this desire is that frankly if you’re playing damnation+, you don’t want to use sub-bar weapons and definitely don’t want to use only marginally upgraded weapons.
Think about it. Under the proposed system, are you really saying to damnation+ players that when a new weapon family comes out that they should accept either being handicapped playing at their preferred level or drop down to a less enjoyable difficulty merely to level up their weapon to a point where they are comfortable taking it back to damnation+?
Thinking through this I’m increasingly agitated about this prospect.
Seeing the “bar” at the bottom of the mastery screen makes me realize that if you have four mastery points for example you can’t just dump four points into blessing A and get it to tier 4. No no. You’ll need like 20 mastery points to “unlock” tier 4 blessings, or tier 4 perks entirely. So you can’t even rush to a maxed weapon “build A” quickly and then use that to unlock other options. You’ll have to crawl along the whole track first.
And to CommanderJ’s point we’re losing the ability to brute force into a good weapon if you have the resources
@FatsharkStrawHat The system needs a release valve somewhere. Mastery needs to be earned globally so you can stockpile and apply it to upgrade other weapons, OR the upgrades need to not be gated behind a master bar that caps what you can with the early mastery points you have, OR something like this.
I’m increasingly apprehensive about this change. And of course September 24th is right around the corner and let’s be honest - with Fatshark’s development methods there isn’t time for taking in this feedback and making a change prior to launch. There never is.
5 Likes
I’m just going to raise a totally selfish point.
I have
- 1200 hours in game
- 5 avatars at true levels (30 + 283, +203, + 165, +165 and a lower tier blessing hunter at 26)
- 4114741 brunt coins, 5990 Melk Coins, 244002 Plasteel, and 110268 Diamantine
- At least two or three of absolutely every weapon, with rolls of at least 370
- Over 200 weapons at orange level. Thousands at lower combinations but all with high rolls
- Most blessings at tier 4, some only at 3, but very few at tiers 1 and 2 'cos
Just going to say this now: I don’t feel that I should need to grind any amount of time on my existing weapons, apart from maybe an Ogryn pickaxe.
What am I going to do with all that currency. And what can I do with all this pending inventory? Do you want me to spend it all now and render everything down for blessings? Is that the best way?
All this “could be this, could be that, we’re not really sure” gives no real insight in to how it’ll affect players. I don’t care that you’re undoing the locks if that just puts the grind on a different point.
And for the record: I’m still highly annoyed that I have all my mission badges (played at least 100 levels of each), and yet the stupid penance system still thinks I’ve done <50 in many of them.
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I’m increasingly agreeing with you. As you point out, if you’re playing with a maxed weapon group, you are playing sub-optimally with respect to item progression. As soon as you max a weapon group you should switch to another.
Mastery points need to be earned in a global pool that can be applied to any other weapon group to circumvent this.
Fatshark seems to have this idea of “infinite grind/progression” stuck in their mind when designing their itemization system. They add additional layers and hurdles to the system which are totally unneeded because the sheer resource costs for most players is enough of a gate to progression that we’re talking 1,000s of hours already.
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Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I think I’m actually going to end up being WORSE OFF than I currently am.
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Before I answer this I need something clarified:
Will we have the ability to freely change the stats how we would like them?
Because the way it looks to me, we will only be able to upgrade all 5 stats at once and can’t move around surplus points onto other stats instead.
Depending on the answer, I have wildly different things to say 
This was asked and feedbacked with the first announcement. Since they intentionally didn’t address it you can bet your ass that you will have to suck the RNG gods off for a good stat distribution base weapon to upgrade.
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That’s exactly what I’m going with too.
And if that’s the case, I have an entire “page” of stuff to “complain” about
Yeah, a lot of "I told you so"s will be dropped, once they actually release detailed information. Looking forward to the cope brigade trying to justify the ‘improvements’.
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Hmm, people genuinely worried about mastery being wasted upon reaching cap?
I mean, I’m gonna master ALL las weapons, up to max, and my shovels and chainswords, then I’m done with it. Onto the joy of purging, then.
How come folks want to keep progressing?Am I just missing something here? I get what you’re saying about new weapons. But I mean, lets say the Hellgun drops, right? I’m not expecting to be maxed out. I’ll just grab a weapon with the right potential max stats from Brunt, then start killing with it to max my mastery.
Whats uhh, whats the deal here? this bad or what?
4 Likes
This is the biggest sticking point for me. It only benefits people who need a grind to keep playing.
I can’t just “play for fun” when I know that if I want to “play for fun” by trying a new weapon build, oh wait…I can’t. Because I didn’t arbitrarily waste my time grinding out a stupid meter.
Even if you argue retention systems are a must have, this is one of the worst ways to do it.
It seems to me that weapons will be all capable to be upgraded to 380, but distributions are still random.
BTW I’m aware that there are some people including you with total aversion to any kind of progression, loot or RNG, and would rather just have everything unlocked and selected as you desire.
I replied to you because I absolutely want to avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water in these situations. Point gap is a good thing.
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Just buy a few and upgrade to orange?
Yea and if/when a new class comes out we’ll have to actually play with it to progress.
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I don’t think you’ll be able to anymore. Your upgrade potentials appear to be limited by your mastery level. So even if you can upgrade to orange still, you won’t be able to modify the weapon until your mastery level is high enough to let you adjust those perks and blessings.
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No, you can upgrade. It’s in the Q&A and quoted in this thread multiple times.
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Well obviously. Don’t split hairs.
Clearly I meant that rating is no longer a factor in deciding on weapons from brunt.
Okay… let’s say all the current crafting options stay as they are (minus blessing extraction).
New weapon group comes out. Let’s say I get a decent base stat item from brunt and upgrade it to orange. It gets random perks and blessings. Let’s assume that you can still get tier 3 or 4 blessings on it.
But what happens then? Locks are gone but will I be able to change any of the perks or blessings on my orange weapon if I haven’t gained enough mastery to unlock new perks and blessings? I’m assuming I can only change to things I’ve earned in mastery - and you might need 20 mastery levels before you can even unlock a single tier 4 blessings. See the problem?
So all my “unlocked” orange items or things I get from Melk, or upgrade to orange are subsequently limited to only being able to modified within the extent of what I’ve unnoocked in mastery.
2 Likes