An other way to think

Continuing the discussion from Thank you Fatshark, for not listening to tryhards and not making the game worse:

Lol, i like this 1 but it s not the truth unfortunatly.

First PS has been nerfed (it needed but it s been too much) i said, ho ok you wanna nerf PS, so what about flamer ? And ppls wanting PS nerf at this point said me i was 'tard and flamer wasnt OP. Now ppls want to kill the flamer and seriously, i LOL. Then, wich weapon will it be ? Bolter for sure. So here it’s a real problem, it s more and more nerfs way. It’s not constructiv way, it’s cleaving community and killing the game population, so lets find an other way guys, just, find an other way.

All that kill the lore, the fun, cause ther s a lot of weapons, few ppls that hate thos few “OP” things can freely use other weapons.
Taking off by a nerf “OP” weapons that lore fanes love dont give em any choice in return.
Can you see the injustice ?
Cant you just play with other weapons and let ppls enjoy as they want and as they bought the game ?

Just guys, listen each others and try to find the good way, it’s same debat during monthes, and nerf, or not nerf, community is dying, so, nerf strat doesnt work, lets use our brain and suggest a real up to the game if we love it.

I think they nerfed Infernus way too hard, and didn’t give any corresponding buffs to the Accatrans. That’s my worry about nerfing, where they nerf something and just leave it effectively useless either forever or until their next balance pass.

Also another thing that I found out recently, burn stacks deal exponential damage.

That’s probably why it’s so busted where there is no stack cap.

There is a stack cap. I think it’s even listed when you hover over the “burn” stat.

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Agreed. It would be nice if everyone takes a few steps back to take a look around and see the bigger picture.

Personally, I believe that there are plenty of weapons that aren’t being used because they are either useless, simply not good enough, or just plain feel bad. Perhaps it might be a good idea to work on these first.

Weapon variety is also very lacking. A lot of them are just slight variations.

So really, I don’t understand all the hate on the PS and Flamer. It’s a coop game and not PVP.

Oh, I meant that in relation to Infernus being nerfed. T

here were also a few other buggy interactions like blocked hits (bulwarks, boss shield) can still proc burn, and I suspect for a while that applying a burn when already at the stack caps procs an immediate tick of damage, but that was in the pre-order beta.

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Your logic in your OP assumes people won’t leave if the game is unbalanced as well by framing it as “Just let people have fun!” As I said there, that’s not how it works. I know I have no interest in a game where the weapons are extremely poorly balanced with some heavily outshining others, regardless of whether or not I’m personally using it. I can’t stop my teammate from using the Golden Gun to one shot everything and live out his power fantasy (If anything it makes it 100x more miserable as it becomes a “Baby sit the overpowered character” game as your role is relegated to making sure they don’t get sneak attacked while doing nothing else. It’s awful.) Not to mention feeling punished if you prefer something that isn’t the big shiny thing. Preferring the revolver or some such shouldn’t make you feel like you’re holding back the team because you’re not using the Lore Accurate ™ gun of death. I stopped playing Back 4 Blood because they made the game a joke with a lot of the balance changes. You can very much scare off players by not nerfing over performing things.

If you leave the game because they attempted to rein in over performing weapons to be more in line with the goal of keeping a challenging/interesting game without leaving players feeling weak because you want to live out your power fantasies, that is entirely on you, not the other players, not the devs. Every game pretty much ever has attempted to maintain some form of balance. If you want to live out your vicarious eviscerator wet dreams, go to a lower difficulty.

Also the fact that the topic got locked and you’re just trying to circumvent it and stir things up again. Why?


Never think or tell that in anyway. I simply constat nerf/buff way is a total echec, and ask community to work together on other ways to envolve the game and bring fun to evrybody.

I personnaly think befor tweaking anything their s really, bigs and abnormal problems to solve, ingame, emblematic exemple, craft … it’s … :scream:

Why asking tweak about weapons, or classes, when we cant tweak our weapons ingame, i mean, will we ask again same sh’t when we ll be able to craft powerfull weapons ?

It’s total nonsens, and we see this circus for monthes now, and it never solved anything.

I think the fear is justified to a degree because Fatshark previously have nerfed things into oblivion or outright deleted things/functionality that had ongoing effects outside of the scope of the original nerf.

Off the top of my head:

  • Unchained pushing affected by overcharge - Removed. Gone. Never came back.
  • Nerfing Saltpyre’s ranged weapons (especially the repeater pistol) because the Bounty Hunter synergised too well with it, instead of toning down the career synergies, making the repeater pistol ok for BH but useless for everyone else.
  • Nerfing Moonbow to shreds but leaving Javelin as is.
  • Fixing ranged weapon traits to have a cooldown because of multihit proccing but affecting other traits that worked because of multihitting too.

So far in DT the most memorable one to me is the Accatrans (Infernus) nerf, which there were some buggy interactions but a lot of it feels over nerfed, and the Accatrans haven’t received anything at all to make it more how it felt in the betas.

I would like Fatshark to fix the bugs (if they are bugs, it’s really hard to tell) like ranged things affecting melee and vice versa, then QoL and feel of weapons (like the thunder hammer charge) and then nerf and buff from a more solid foundation.

What if the flamer was powerful because they the burn stack cap wasn’t working properly (and burn stack damage is exponential)? What if bullet weapons had weird interactions with the server calculating hits? Why does the zealot ability affect ranged weapons too?

TLDR: I think it’s completely justified for people to fear nerfs from Fatshark.

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As you say ther s bugs to fix, and fonctionalitys to add ingame befor tutching anything, tweakings things cause community ask at this point of development is a big mistake.

Then, for thos who want more challenges without regarding the lore, why not ask FS to add 1 more difficulty lvl as they done in VT ? Simple as that, it will be fine for everybody :two_hearts:
I just personnally think it will be a short term solution cause the game need really important updates and 1 more difficulty lvl will not make the game better as it is atm.

Personally I am a bit more concerned about the blessings. Balance between weapons is not a topic on which I am worried. Fatshark has a proven track record in making a lot of weapons consistently feel relevant through dmg, cleave, stagger, mobility, rate of fire, finesse and ammo efficiency. The tweaks to the patch notes, nerfs or buffs are a testimony that this is still core to their craft.

You could make a point that flamer, PS, MG12, Bolter, Antax are OP/above the curve, or that the autopistol/laspistol is not used for a reason. And yes I think some tweaks would be welcome. But overall there are weaknesses on all of them that can come back and bite you.

I think the fear is justified to a degree because Fatshark previously have nerfed things into oblivion or outright deleted things/functionality that had ongoing effects outside of the scope of the original nerf.

Eh, that’s one thing, though even this topic isn’t approaching it from that standpoint. If people are afraid of overnerfs specifically from Fatshark that’s one thing, but that is not even remotely what’s being said here. Even then I think some of those examples are a bit dramatic, EG: Sienna’s overcharge: That’s ignoring that unchained got massively buffed in the first place. I was already nigh unkillable on her prior to them reworking her talents/allowing you to use your ability to escape exploding, if I could also vent via overcharge/blocking and all that it would have required other changes to compensate. I wouldn’t call that purely a nerf nor deserving of skepticism from Fatshark.

I think the bigger issue right now is that game is stuck in flux. Ordinarily we’d be getting some tweaking on the whole (See: Kickback) but more complicated ones like the accatrans/fire are going to be more difficult to balance. (Particularly since fire right now is a rather… tacked on debuff IMO, with the lack of it synergizing with any class)

I’m not saying to not fix things, not even remotely. The issue is people (Such as in the OP) acting like if they nerf down the power sword’s cleave from 10 targets to 9 or something it will literally kill the game and scare off the remaining players. Only other thing I’ll touch directly:

I want to know this myself and refuse to use it on my zealot as it feels extremely borked. I figured it would get fixed in one of these last hotfixes as it makes balance a mess for things like the flamer, enabling it to melt even most elites.

That doesn’t fix some weapons outperforming others. I do think we need another difficulty, but I thought that even prior to the last few patches. Damnation feels somewhere around legend difficulty in VT to me. Even if they add another though, there’s still going to be weapons people vastly prefer in the current state of the game. See: A huge portion of the automatic guns being pointless right now. You can’t really fix it because certain ones are just better in every category, it’s not like you can just buff others up to it without making them all functionally identical.

What dont you understand in GAMES WORKSHOP licence, respecting LORE, its, under, licence, and many players bought the game for 40k lore.

I give you a way to have more competitive game adding a lot of HP to ennemy, what do you want at last, a laspistol doing same damages than a bolter ? It’s a nonsense …

I cant fallow what you want anymore sorry :person_shrugging:

Ultimately? Yes. Both a bolter and a laspistol should be valid options, even if a laspistol doesn’t have the raw power of the bolter. There’s a multitude of ways to do this, from the general feel of the weapon (See: Thunder hammer being M E A T Y with its bonks) to more utility focused aspects of it. In the laspistol example you can have things like it being more focused around crits, or mobility, or being your general close range skirmisher gun (Though unfortunately guns are much harder to find a niche for, laspistol in particular will likely find a better home if/when we get a class more focused around fire, much like the accatrans). Bolter is your chonky boi with heavier downsides to offset the high damage. On that token though, I think they really need more mechanically different guns rather than just a ton of variations of a machine gun. Where’s the brace of pistols from VT? Grudgerakers? Throwing axes? Crossbows? Bolter could have instead knocked you back slightly from the recoil rather than slapping a 6 second reload on it and calling it balanced. Increases the feeling of power while still having a mechanical difference that can be good and bad.

You can achieve this variety both class wise and weapon wise, such as the combat knife/tactical axe synergizing with a crit zealot. Right now there’s not really much of this in Darktide. Hopefully with more classes they’ll do some reworks to make them more interesting/enable more diversification within subsets as far too many things are very generic, which ultimately hurts variety as well.

Just because you think it’s nonsense for somebody to want balance in the game because you can’t get over “The lore™” doesn’t make my opinion invalid. You’re fine with a regular guardsman cutting down thousands of cultists with a shovel but you can’t fathom the idea of having weapon variety/choices that don’t gimp you if you pick anything other than the overpowered lore option? You truly don’t see the issue with that mentality? This is a genuine question, mind. If you can’t see that we’re never going to see eye to eye.

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I remember crowbill was a meta weapon before nerfed to the ground. But also i’m almost 100% sure even if Fatshark will come and say “look we got ingame metrics and this weapon is overperfoming on this difficulty so we decide to tweak it” people still will cry.

It would be nice if we could peek at some of the metrics or get some dev thoughts on patch changes.

I agree said like that, have a valid options to do a certain work ingame, ok, still pretty sure it s not about nerf way.

First of all considering that, in DT you have 4 character, 4 classes … And it’s so sad and maybe why we can find synergy with a lot of weapons, so what, once again its a dev content story missing a lot …

Yes sir, you can get it balanced with other ways than nerfing, it s the only thing i say.

Coz it’s lore and 40k fans want lore … simple.

But it’s a lie. Nurgle beast can eat you and you aren’t gonna die from Nurgle AIDS after it puke you back. 4 rejects killing 1k enemies including astra militarum veterans with hotshot lasguns buffed by chaos is nonsense. Not even saying about a demonhost. Should i even add something about that endless debate “wah there is a lasgun recoil” and holo scope? If you are trying to be lore accurate, then be it in every nuance. But the thing is you still can roleplay and cosplay powerfantasy despite any balance changes, there are chill lower difficulties for that.

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Bringing lore into a discussion on game balance is one of the most braindead things I’ve seen in the gaming community - ever.

I said it several times, even if several did not want to read it.

I am less concerned by nerf (even if I think that power sword and flamer would need a slight nerf) than by the lack of variety in weapons used.

I made several posts to propose changes…
Buffing doesn’t mean increasing damages. You can do it differently.

Other than two weapons (laspistol and revolver), I don’t think we should tweak the damages done directly.

  • the revolver needs more ammunitions and also a slight increase of its damages.

  • Laspistols could be great if we increased close range damages and reduced a lot long range damages.

  • shotgun could be a viable weapon with x2 ammo and more ammo in the magazine. It could be a great weapon with x3 total ammos.

  • lasguns: MG XII is too efficient and has lot of ammo and a large magazine. It makes MG Ia and MG IV totally useless. With these two weapons you run out of ammo pretty fast (even faster than with recon lasgun). Making the MG XII magazine that reduce the shots you can do and a slower reload could be solution. But MG Ia and MG IV could use less energy as their damages are lower…An autofire on MG Ia and MG IV could be also a great feature.

  • Helbore: needs a scope in my opinion. A scope that would reproduce the zoom you got when you use the ability of the veteran.

  • Autoguns: they need a balance. Infantry autogun are not really good if we consider the braced autogun. Someone has proposed to lower the accuracy of brauto except when braced. That could be a good thing. However, I think that infantry gun should see the ammo tweaked. Maybe only magazine with a larger capacity.
    Headhunters have been tweaked last patch… so let’s wait that we test them
    Shredder autopistol needs, definitively, more ammo. Not a bigger magazine, but more ammos.

Well, I really want to be able to test lot of configurations. That’s make my game better.
I stick, for most of the time I play as a zealot. I mainly use with Combat axe and, now, flamer (before it was pistol, but it has been proven this gun is not efficient and in damnation it can lead to the death of a team).

I love testing. Yesterday I have used heavy sword / bolter. That was great (however the number of mouse click can be annoying at the end). I love also to play critic template with tactical axe and brauto agri or bolter.

But my problem is that, I have to use flamer / bolter or brauto agri to be efficient (MG XII could be added to the list). This makes all others really bad options. I would love to play with a shotgun… but why would I do that when we have a bolter that is 6 times better!

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And why not asking that for more difficulty ? I presonnaly find bosses really weak and useless.

On the begin we are yeah with lazpistol, autopistol, and scrapy swords, but at the end we r Inquisition, so … nop …

Yes we can, as i said many times during last days, i asked for a stamina system coz we r humans and not astartes, here it could add real difficulty, stam + weapons weight influcting it, heavy PS, heay stykes, but killing stam, for exemple. No need to nerf !

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