Allow stims to be used to revive someone who is incapped(downed).
In game functions:
Equip the stim and highlight the target on the ground, stab the same way we have always done so. Player is revived.
While holding revive (E), if a player has a stim in their inventory, an option for (J or keybind) Inject Stim can appear. Once the player presses Inject Stim (J) the stim is used and player is revived (no stab animation).
-The purpose of this option is to give the flexibility to stim during revive animation, instead of one or the other.
Similar to function 2, The icon on a downed player (E) Revive can have (J) Stim Revive.
-The additional nuance is to give players the option to run by and stim without having to equip the item. This way players can circumvent option #2 and get right to the point.
Granting Stims the ability to revive a downed player will dramatically increase their value and utility. Applying a stim to a downed player will grant the same effect as if it were used while standing. The health bar should receive the downed penalty first before the stim effect is applied. Lastly, the stim cannot be used to release a player who is hogtied.
What does the community think? Are stims fine the way they are, or would this be a nice addition to the game?
My counter is players can already instantly revive someone with an ability (shout). This would be a consumable and to balance the stim IMO would mean they appear less during a mission.
seems an interesting idea but maybe could be a bit too op yea
also i think there should be still the stab animation, just like when you use it on others.
so people need to equip it and use it on downed players.
maybe if you have a med stimm you can upgrade it to something when you use it in the med station consuming a charge for it but it is an upgraded med stimm where you can use it on downed players to revive them in one go. but i think would be a bit op
That would be too strong.
Stimms are fine, they are very strong and useful, balanced by the fact that people can’t be bothered to pick them up or use them appropriately.
heh, that was my the original thought too, players don’t even know when, how or why to use them other than the green one. I figured adding a feature to revive players with them would increase their use.
Yes, seems like the case so far… I do like the dexterity or “small skill check” to target and stab when you get a lock.
I like this take, I still don’t see how using a stim would be OP since it’s a consumable, if anything the in-game practice could result to players feel like it’s a waste when they can res you for free, or use an ability.
I shouldn’t have to since the other shout talent is invariably considered OP but I will:
The shout has a competing talent option that is generally simply way better. Heavily reduces CD compared to having revive shout, gives gold toughness (which has many unique mechanics that make it extremely desirable defensively) and has a much bigger radius. This talent pick is why the skill snowballs so hard, when enough specials spawn the CD and gold toughness effect are tuned so that you can keep having gold toughness up for as long as specials spawn. Depending on the team, both elites and specials will achieve this.
Holding the shout for a revive instead of using it preemptively to bolster defenses potentially LEADS to deaths. In many situations you can avoid those deaths instead by giving your allies a lot of toughness, which if nothing else saves them a wound/prevents them from full dying.
In many many situations, the larger AoE shout stagger gives you enough space to res anyway.
These factors make up the opportunity cost. You’re giving up all these factors for the shout revive. The shout revive is actually fairly powerful, but it comes at that staggeringly high opportunity cost.
Using a consumable of which you find like 15 on the map that don’t even really do THAT much to begin with (speed stimms are a joke) as a free revive comes at nearly no opportunity cost. It’d basically just be giving players an insta res option with basically no real downside.
I still think if they reduce the number of “15” stims to 4 or 5 the opp. cost/value of them will dramatically increase. That being said, the majority so far, (if not 100%) are seeing this addition to the game as OP or not needed.
I honestly would see no problem in players using a med stim for a faster revive; I’d just allow players to target a downed player with it to instantly rez him and clear a wound. If considered op, it could be balanced by not also healing - pay with total health (and the inability to block for a second) for a faster rez.
Why overcomplicate it by requiring an extra button?
That said, all the other stims should probably have longer durations - most people just ignore them.
I figured players might not realize the stim could provide that function. Holding E creates a window for a dog to pounce or mutant to grab/something hit you. Adding a button to press in this instance can create a timing where you wanted to save the stim for later but were forced to use it, if that makes sense.
@Murderer Now that I sit on it, adding a function for stim like this could make the opp. cost talents that insta revive even higher, since a stim can do it for “free”.
Yeah I was thinking about it and maybe one way to implement this without devaluing the other uses for stimms would be to simply make it its own “revive stimm” or something and only having a couple of those per map.
The same conclusion you came to applies though, it’d devalue the revive shout a bit more (aswell as other stuff that can clutch revives indirectly). Also, I think it’d mean that people will use even less speed stimms anyways, since they have even more better ones to hold onto “just in case”.
I think realistically stimms might just need a redesign as a whole to be more impactful (but not necessarily just a straight buff). The VT2 potions were in a pretty nice balance spot and were all very impactful, although the game had very different systems so it’s probably not 1:1 comparable.
Move the green stim into the medkit/ammo crate inventory slot could be a solution, allowing players to cycle through the red/blue/yellow stim while holding onto the green.
My process for understanding stim leads me down to having a class (alchemist) that could essentially do this ability instead of granting it to every class. Having talents that change stims to be more like V2. They could generate stims every min, increase duration or use one stim and grant all 3 buffs for shorter duration.
Alchemist class talents :
Change Red stim to add fire damage or bleed
Change Blue stim to add AP or (brittle, shred)
Change Yellow stim to add lightning or increased stamina
Fully support green stimms doing this. If people are really upset by it make it so you have to hold it on a peraon for 1/2th the time of a normal res but is not needed imo. Only revives and doesn’t clear a wound or give health back.
The tradeoff of not being able to heal the downed player (and potentially not give them another chance of going down before death) but revive them very quickly is an interesting choice you would have to make in the moment. Can I get the revive off normally and give them a wound back? Or do I need to use this resource to do so?
The game isn’t hard enough currently to really warrant such a choice but hopefully Havoc will alleviate this.
I agree. I want to see an increased utility for Stims and I think allowing more interaction would be a great start. The tradeoff for clearing wounds is an interesting idea.
i don’t know how many times i ping a stim for others to pick up because i’m carrying one already and… nope. i’m often on stims more than the others together because i use them just in case rather than leave them there.
seems the green one is the only many people like to carry.
i even had a guy recently who opened chests, pinged “plasteel!” and ran away like he had an allergy to the stuff, after having opened the damn chest already… the kark?
Come to think of, when it comes to stimm changes I would be a huge fan of being able to throw them, either to inject people or just to make them grab them. The current pass-item and inject-ally systems are so absolutely annoying to use due to range constraints that simply nobody does it as a rule.
i use to help them if i have a green stim and they’re near death. or poke someone with red when i think that player can do more damage than i can. but when they’re not nearby, and you or they don’t use voice chat, then you’re often following them with the raised syringe and end up taking it yourself. would be hilarious to throw the syringe at someone’s butt (and have them react)
Yes, trailing along trying to stab my pals is almost comical, I think they should increase the radius and have a small charge, or leap towards the teammate, since by the time you actually find your friends veins, their ult is over, or the target is dead.
Yes! They could allow for the gas grenade effect where you paint an AoE of “red/yellow/blue” mist which can counter-act the poison gas, but again this would be for my made-up alchemist class and maybe be a stim-grenade instead of a sryinge.
that’s so accurate.