It takes 25 minutes to get 100% ammo back from it. That is just bad. Taking any other talent that gives more damage (ammo efficiency indirectly) is just way better, but you have to take the talent to take the gun ability.
Agreed. Getting 4 bullets in 1 minutes is a bit rough considering the right side tree focuses a lot on ranged.
That’s right. I completely agree. It’s strange that a class specialized in long-range combat would have such a shortage of ammo.
I strongly disagree. It isn’t supposed to give you infinite ammo, it’s just supposed to give you more so you don’t soak up all the ammo on the map. I always run this talent and the amount of ammo I gain is way enough for one talent point. Combined with the Vet aura, you don’t need to pick up a single ammo the whole mission unless you just mag-dump your gun all the time. This is just power creep you’re asking for.
its not a talent to rely on when going a full ranged build that shoots all your ammo within the first 2 minutes of the match, the maps do still spawn ammo that you will need to pickup
or… you could shoot your gun less, then you wont need as much ammo 
the servo skull + noospheric command does all the shooting for me
No it really needs more.
In normal damnation players are strugling even with this talent to utilise their ranged build.
Also your last 2 points are kinda irrelevant to the topic.
Edit: for a hybrid build it is enough tho.
What weapon were u using? The only way it’d take remotely that long is due to how the math of regen skills (anything under 100 gets carried over to the next tic and added to see how many 100s it can make)
Yes this ammo talent is pretty trash. I’d rather skip it and get something else, if it wasn’t mandatory.
I’ve played Skitarii in mid Havoc and chordclaw and electric builds are like 100% stronger without relying on ammo supplies and dealing way more damage to armored elites and hordes.
Skitarii’s ammo economy is worse than both Vet and Hive Scum, which is a bit surprising.
Pure ranged builds got shafted again, but I guess it’s a pattern at this point. In Havoc you have really low boss damage if you play with a ranged ultimate and a bunch of ranged talents, and you don’t have much tools to deal with big crowds.
Which is kinda stupid if you ask me, since you can still oneshot specials in non-ranged build. So the supposed “upsides” of pure ranged build are minimal in actual gameplay.
My zealot has wet dreams of that talent. How tf is 100% more ammu not a good skill? For comparison there are 25% increased ammo reserve skills…
It’s not 100% more ammo lol. You don’t hold 100% more ammo, you just regen some. But in auric and Havoc if you focus on ranged and you’re the one killing all the gunners and specials, you will spend way more ammo than you gain, especially if you have multiple trigger-happy people in the lobby who also pick up ammo drops.
100% more ammo means you always have additional ammo at your disposal as long as you pick up the drops, in case dozens of elites spawn or you get a boss and your team has low boss damage where you have to deal the majority of it.
Skitarii also has 25% skill. We’re talking about the regen passive. It regens the whole ammo pool once per mission which only sounds good. In actuality, this talent could be easily skipped to prioritize additional melee damage talent or something. Any of the melee talents is worth more, because it conserves way more ammo than you gain from this passive.
Again how is 100% restored ammo over less than one mission bad? It is stuff some other classes dream about…
IMHO I have to talk about this whole part of the tree. I don’t feel like I can honestly assess Ammo Restoration Pod without admitting it’s a three-talent-point cost node with an objectively correct way to path to it.
These three have been popping up a lot in my builds and I know for a fact that I am shooting way more often in games than my compadres. If you’re willing to spend 5 seconds in melee, you basically never reload in game. Like I keep telling myself I don’t need these three for my chord claw melee builds, but I keep taking them anyway because it’s just so handy to have your side arm always ready.
No, I haven’t tried every build yet. What I’ve used with it so far is with Chord Claw and Voltaic Emitter builds and using Galvanic Rifle, Phosphor Pistol, and Arc Rifle. No Advanced Combat Doctrine builds since hitting 30 because most of the blue nodes around it aren’t anywhere as good as the rest of the tree (I’m just being honest so y’all get where my opinion’s coming from)
So it IS possible to single out Ammunition Restoration Pod, but if you did so you did it WRONG, and you HAVE to take it if you’re pathing to Advanced Combat Doctrines who benefits the least from it.
That is why I want to criticize this talent even though it’s in all of my builds so far and I like it.
I think all three talents should be moved north away from Advanced Combat Doctrines and replaced with Moebian Conductors, Assassination Protocols, and Superior Tracking Litanies.
Also I think putting Ammo Pods right next to the aura Ammo Deposit makes more sense and isn’t too wild of a convenience. So that part of the tree would look like
Lastly, this is just me, I’m surprised it has no interaction with Capacitors. But what if the math was 1% ammo regen at 0 Capacitance, 1.5% ammo at 3 Capacitance, and 3% ammo at 5 Capacitance (with the Redline Capacitor keystone) would that be bad?
Such as? Zealot and Ogryn?
Because every other class has grenade regen or ammo regen or infinite ammo skills such as dog or Desperado. Ogryn is pretty nutty after the buffs to the Barrage, it conserves ammo better, although I personally dislike this playstyle, because I don’t see Ogryn as a ranged unit and I hate playing Ogryn with low melee damage. So that leaves us with Zealot who some people would say is underpowered and doesn’t have ranged playstyle at all at this point in time. Zealot has the least ranged AOE both in skills and weapons and also the 2 worst grenades.
Meanwhile Skitarii has like a dozen ranged-exclusive skills for sharpshooting and an ultimate which cannot function without ammo, while it deals less damage than Chordclaw. Emitter is also a better choice, since it interracts with enemy density the best.
If you play a ranged build you need ammo for these builds to perform on par with melee builds.
Vet has a stronger version for which something needs to happen, so it is (slightly) more difficult to keep up in comparison to an always active regeneration.
Scum has that ammo reg on melee which is still widely discussed to be op.
Arbites has no ammo reg.
Zealot has no ammo reg.
Ogrin replenishes half his ammo after ult use, so you have to use this ult, aka invest heavily into ranged.
Scitty does not look like he is under equipped in that regard.
Keep In mind scitty is supposed to be a jack of all trades (master of none)
That’s literally just the vet aura by itself (which is teamwide too). I don’t see how it can be power creep when there are already ammo sustain source that eclipse it. I’d argue all the new talent trees/reworks giving constant 10-20% damage boosts per talent point is the bigger power creep.
All of them. It’s a percentage value…
25% more ammo affects pickups too meaning that you will not just hold but also gain more bullets. You get way more ammo sustain from that over the course of a mission than you would the 1% every 15/sec perk. It’s more ammo efficient to just grab any damage boost instead so you need less bullets. That is also what I’ve started doing when I’m not using the gun ability and I’ve felt the difference heavily.
i think it’s the only ammo econ talent they ever made that isnt way too strong
it amounts to roughly 2-3 red ammo bag pickups per mission on aurics, which is a massive relief on ammo economy for the whole team, on havoc even more
meanwhile ogryn can currently go through an auric just 24/7 holding down leftclick and be fine and maybe have to pick up 2 ammo bags if he has no vet. the repeated pbb buffs were uncalled for
Not to mention vet can hypothetically regen 12% over the course of a minute (60s/5=12) and scum just has infinite ammo if they kill a elite everyonce in a while. I think the timer could be improved a little (say 12s) but the other 2 need a regen nerf more
I love your capacitance idea and think something of the sort could work but your node switch up would be a hard nerf. Doctrine needs ammo more then anything to work so switching it for 2 nodes the ult already addresses and damage buff over nodes that sustains the backbone of the ability seems way more counterintuitive imo