Sure there are more players on legend, but there is no need to talk about legend, because if you balance the weapon around cata you will meet always more breakpoints on legend when it comes down to damage. And cleave and stagger is the same because the mass of the enemies doesnt differ from legend to cata. So you will have always a nice weapon on legend if you balance the weapon around cata. But the other way round if your main focus is on legend when balancing a weapon, you will get poor results on cata.
Edit: And if weapons are on cata fine but on legend OP you can still tweak it being more high risk high reward without a straight up nerf, which would result in poor performance on cata.
Precisely. Not only that but it’s worth mentioning that people who come straight from Legend onto Cata, often can’t deal with the difficulty spike. The point being is Legend is not the final or hardest difficulty and if people are finding Legend too easy then they can play on Cata and when they do what often happens is they’ll find the game isn’t so easy anymore.
That’s kinda what I want, but even for Cata, I think javs need an adjustment to change how players use them. Limited ammo would be great, or a reduction in cleave.
noone has disagreed that it doesnt need a rework/tweak.
I only pointed out that vs mixed hordes the cleave isnt that strong and indeed often situational.
Thats why i prefer a nerf to stagger, so players have to be more careful
Limited as in a total of maybe 9-12, reloading 3 at a time.
Also, we established they have half the cleave of javelins on the charged attack. I think bringing the javs down to the same cleave as throwing axes is warranted. If a charged attack can cleave 5 ungor, that means the javs can do 10 alongside their other advantages.
Not sure I understand. If you mean by giving it a finite ammo pool with a max reload of 9 to 12 then I’d disagree on that approach. Better to give it a quiver of 9 javlins total. This will hurt Cata runs though.
I disagree with this. Throwing axes have high damage and can 1 shot SV without any power creep. Javlins damage output is weaker. Unless you want to compensate less cleave with more damage, I wouldn’t do this.
Establising a total amount of javs should be fine, shade has to backstab more to regain ammo, sister and handmaiden have to think more about if they really need to throw that jav. I only see a problem with the waystalker because piercing shot will become even more uncommon and i really like this talent. It makes fun to practice it.
The cleave, hmm i dont see that there will be much difference on cata since there are mixed hordes you are most often not cleaving the full amount anyway. This nerf/tweak would hit legend players much more than cata players. Because on legend there is not such a thing like mixed hordes (but you can have shielded clanrats and raiders of course.)
A max reloads of 3 with a finite pool of 9 to 12 shots depending on what plays better that’d be like 18-24 on waystalker, (it’d have to be tested to see if the amount works).
The damage of javelins isn’t far off from axes as is, and they reload quicker, have better range and throwing arc. For the axes, you have to charge each attack to get the cleave. Reducing the insanely high cleave on javelins from like 10 ungor to 5 seems like a sensible solution to me.
I wouldn’t want to lose the cleave on Cata runs for the simple reason, sometimes you need to snipe a special in a beastmen horde, and you can’t always shoot over them like you can with slave rats, so if I’m getting finite javlins and I have to snipe a special through a beastmen horde on cata, then I at least want the cleave. Avoiding the shields/armour to do that is part of the challenge.
As it stands there isn’t a lot of great choices for Kerillian with Cata runs, generally just the LB, MFB and Javlin are your choices but if Javs are nerfed, and that nerf isn’t handle correctly then it may not be used at all, which is what I’m afraid of.
Yes, the lower cleave is exactly why throwing axes are not as overused as javs. You can’t easily dispatch enemies in hordes with the axes.
I’m for either reducing cleave or capping the ammo; not both. I think either change would reduce how often players spam them instead of doing literally anything else.
No, you just have to aim. Same with the Javlins. You need to aim with them to get the cleave. Neither can cleave without aiming since attacking normally with the throwing axe you get rapid fire but no cleave, and with Javlins it turns into a melee weapon.
I think if its playtested enough you will find a value which is enough to snipe a special in a horde on cata and still prevent legend players to delete most of of the lined up hordes.
The axes seem to have a charge on them as you aim and it takes a precious moment between shots to do so. After you aim with the javs, you can keep spamming them.
Trollhammer is not an alternative to axes for bardin and comparing pistols to javs is like apples and oranges.
The thing about lined up hordes is it’s situational. Then you got duck pistols which can delete hordes while they’re spread out, including shielded targets and elites. So I don’t really agree with nerfing a weapon because it’s really good in the right situation.
Also, I think all of Ranger Vet’s ranged weapons are arguably better than the throwing axes. The same can not be said for Javelins which stand out in the elf’s arsenal as a “can do it all” kind of ranged weapon, hordes, elites, specials.
Axes doesn’t have a charge time, they have a slow fire rate. You can’t rapid fire when you aim, but you can with Javlins/LB.
It damn well is an alternative. They’re both range weapons that can delete patrols and monsters and they both have ammo sustain on RV. So RV doesn’t need the throwing axes infinite ammo since he gets ammo for free by sniping specials.