A suggestion to make temporary health... temporary

Make it decay.

Constantly.

What I mean by this is to remove the short “pause” that happens everytime you gain temp health and just have it decay regardless.

For something that is supposed to be fairly limited, it has a tendency to accumulate to the point of almost filling out your entire health bar if you’ve churned through enough enemies.

I’d like to postface (apparently, this is the opposite of a preface) this by saying that I’m not entirely sure if this would leave temporary health too underpowered, I just want it to actually be, you know, temporary.

5 Likes

If you really wanted it temporary, just put a timer on it. After you gain your last temp HP, you have 25 seconds to gain more or it all goes instantly.

I assume temp hp is supposed to be like adrenaline. In the thick of battle you don’t notice how wounded you really are. Or you’re about to hit the floor but a commander rallies you all back to your feet with a war cry or words of encouragement in the case of Mercenary. In the case of zealot ULT, you must purge the heretics before you’re allowed to die.

I just don’t see why after the battle is over and it’s all quiet, you can walk around for a minute or so on 1HP with full temp slowly decaying. Like “Yea, this is fine. I took an overhead giant axe strike directly into my collar bone and down my chest but I’ll just walk it off”.

6 Likes

With some weapons/characters you can receive a ton of temp HP, with other - only a little.
If this “pause” will be removed, temp HP will be completely useless on some weapons.
Maybe it should be balanced for each weapon separatedly.
Or maybe with new digfficulty it will be not so unbalanced, who knows?

nice

I don’t necessarily believe that something needs to be equally strong across all weapons.

There’s always going to be weapons that are inherently better at clearing hordes than others, thus there’s always going to be weapons that are inherently better at stacking temporary health than others.

That being said, yes, I do not believe that temporary health should be completely useless on select weapons, but I wouldn’t mind if it was a tad bit stronger on some than on others.

Perhaps make temporary health gain a modifier based on which weapon you have equipped?

1 Like

Some classes THP is working just right. Keeps you going, but you can’t get too stuck in because it’ll vanish pretty quickly and you need to limp to the next med-pack or whatever.

Some classes ZEALOT and MERC can stack up THP with impunity and not even care whether they’re THP or normal HP because it’s always maxed out so why bother.

In short, the theory of THP is fine, but in practice the talents that give THP and synergise with a class very very well are so overpowered on some classes it’s silly.

It should definitely decay a lot faster, either by eliminating the pause or just making it, you know,d ecay faster. Currently it decays at .5 per second, if you doubled that to 1 per second that’s still over a minute before it fully decays (players have 100 health by default except for a few careers), which is already quite long for something that’s ‘temporary.’

3 Likes

Removing the delay would help for sure.

Slayer, zealot on their own generate such a dumb amount of temp health thanks to attack speed/talent so I’m sure it wouldn’t help the most blatant examples. (A merc ontop of that is just silly.)

I just want to note that I would be ok with changes of temp hp being part of the difficulty scaling.
So for example: It would be ok if the next difficulty would reduce temp hp gen by 50% and make it decay at all times or you know disable it.
Just don’t forget to add it to the difficulty description!

5 Likes

I think it is totally ok; already tank careers are imho a bit lackluster… nerf the temp hp and we will have another only ranged meta.

The “Temp-Health is Too Powerful” viewpoint is generally held by folks who are, in the end, quite good at playing Vermintide 2. While not necessarily a rule, a lot of folks want to see Temp-Health weakened in some way because the player isn’t currently challenged on the games’ hardest difficulty. In Vermintide 1, every mistake was “permanent” in the sense that there was no way to mitigate the damage in the future; if you got hit then you got hit.

I’m actually quite fond of @Haxorzist’s comment. Changes to Temp-Health don’t necessarily need to be a blanket! I do, however, want the decay to begin from the moment it is generated and nothing to prevent that decay.

I’d also like to say that I enjoy the idea of buffing Temp-Health generations for specific weapons (a 1.1 multiplier for the Shields on Kruber/Bardin and the Two-Handed Hammers, maybe?) while still implementing that decay immediately. In addition to Legend/Whatever comes after potentially limiting Temp-Health generation, I think it would make for a fine fix going forward :slight_smile:

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I thing decay speed is ok. I will set a maximum of temp hp… 25% of your health points, maybe? so you cant refill the entire health bar but still mitigate some mistakes

3 Likes

Wasn’t everyone complaining about temp hp decaying too fast when the pause timer was removed during the BBB and then it was put back?

I wouldn’t say “everyone”, but yeah, there was noisy resistance. I think it was probably just general change resistance though, or a matter of the changes being big and sudden. Now we’re used to the current style, and it’s been working fine. We generate a lot of Temp Health (on some setups, too much in my opinion) and while it decays faster than it used to, it still can carry us easily through encounters. And even with the current decay speed, it’s often quite enough to carry us through any lulls in the combat too, at least in Legend where both the targets to generate THP from and the encounters to keep it up are frequent enough.

I’m not quite sure if removing the delay completely would be a good solution, but it could be tried. Halving it would be quite fine in my mind, though, to still give enough window to use bombs and potions without an extra penalty. Some Talents’ and setups’ rate of THP generation should really be looked at, though: For example, Zealot can generate so much on a single Talent (for me, Sigmar’s Herald/on cleave) that there’s no need to look at additional ones. I do think, though, that it would probably be wise to limit any changes to the new difficulty only (and actually use that to bring some of the difficulty), unless FS wants to make another big change to the style THP works.

There are always people that want to undo nerfs since “they kill all the fun” I mean everybody is suffering from no longer having beamstaff pyro in their games or an IB that is completely invincible and kills everything mindlessly because he gains temp hp from every kill of his drake fire pistols.
It’s also the people that refuse to accept that the highest difficulty is supposed to be challenging.

If FS actually engaged in discussions they might actually get an idea of what is needed and won’t then implement things nobody asked for and won’t give in that easily.

Also for everybody’s remindment this time it’s not the balancement of Legend it’s a “new higher difficulty” every cut to any crutches should be considered.

PS:
In my opoinon it’s never a bad thing to have difficulties that are so hard you don’t want to play on them all the time just like I remember cataclysm in V1.
Granted after 300h I started to get good at it but wipes where common and just casually walking off the party like I do in legend never crossed my mind back then.
So basically I expect an immense wave of people whining if the game actually get’s a proper difficulty, now that I think about it.

1 Like

I respect your opinion, but honestly I don’t think OP argument depends by players skill. I play since day one and I haven’t problem to play legend (I think the almost every game, after enough hours and experience, become easier), but I think that the nerf brought by BBB patch is enough. The currently THP is precious to give tank careers something to balance the ranged careers huge damage output.

I do so agree that OP wasn’t really focusing on player skill; hence why I mentioned “generally” and not “only held by.”

I do not believe the changes of the BBB will be considered sufficient were Legend going to remain the top difficulty in the game. If another difficulty is introduced it will need to have a better change occur than just increasing the number of enemies or increasing their damage/stagger rate/hit points/speed; the difficulty will have to come from niche changes to the current meta (hence why I believe that creating a properly grueling difficulty will likely involve reductions/modifications to the Temporary-Health system). In order to really rock the meta we will have to find something a lot of people rely on and… change it dramatically :stuck_out_tongue:

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