A Proposal to Nerf the Power Sword and the Plasma Gun, and Buff the Veteran Auras

I’m confused about both of you separately. For @Vodhawak it’s just:

Apart from some ranged options there is nothing less mobile than PS. Closest is Chain Axe that has better defenses (sprint+push cost) and TH which has better dodge speed and better defenses if I remember correctly.

For @Kambrin I’m not sure what the hell he is talking about “good mobility stat”. It’s the worst in the game and there is no difference between the 2 apart from the charge slowdown on VI.


Anyway, I was just read you two and instantly went “WTF???”.

Dunno, I actually use em and the charge slowdown makes a huge difference. I thought it had better dodge/sprint speed too but I guess that also came down to the charge slowdown letting me slide better. You can actually sprint at shooters with the old one, the new one is annoying for it

Honestly no.

So can all other power or chainweapons, most shovels, knives, clubs, shields, force weapons and axes

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Yeah it’s annoying, although you can slide it.

Damn mark III could really use a soft rework like VI had. Should be the more offensive of the 2, but basically lacks compared to VI in every regard.

Plus they should just bring back the 2 activation at base so there can be some build diversity. Not like VI needs it, but could make things more interesting.

Then they should buff 80% of the DT weapons…

Wanted to share my opinions about your opinions. From an Auric Mael, 2k hours perspective.

Power Swords. I really disagree with mobility take. Power swords (both marks) have terrible mobility. That’s the trade off that balances its killing power. You can’t dodge shid, reposition quickly, and will fold if you have to block but you’ll kill most things in front of you if you get to swing. Seems fair, especially with increased density, shooters, and specials/disablers. I’d imagine there’s other reasons you see lots of Power Swords other than their viability, like how they’ve been around forever and, well, they’re cool :stuck_out_tongue: PS seems in a fine place to me.

I’m also mentally comparing Power Sword to the weapon I think needs a nerf (although this feels like another Shredder “it’s the blessings, not the weapon” situation), Knives. I say this as a proud knife enjoyer (it’s addictive and fun).

I agree with you that Plasma needs a nerf. As you said, the left click is too efficient on all fronts. Two opinions:

  1. Definitely let it be an armor killer but transfer a lot of left click damage / pen to the right click. You want a lot of damage? Spend some ammo and charge it up!
  2. Make venting actually have a drawback. Allow the left click to explode you and make venting deal more shield damage / stop shield regen and viola, there’s meaningful tradeoffs and people will want to vent / reload again.

Auras. Old Survivalist was too strong, full stop. Completely negated a game resource (ammo), minimized the importance of a game mechanic (melee), and warped builds on every class around it. It also made balancing a nightmare. You were lowkey seen as throwing if you didn’t bring it. That’s not healthy or fun.

Auras now are perks that help with builds and that’s good! Survivalist still helps sustain ammo without negating the value of ammo pickups, Damage is a flat increase to the whole team that isn’t specific to the type of attack or enemy armor, and Move Speed helps a ton with low mobility options and time efficiency. I don’t think they’re weak or need to be changed. They certainly don’t need every aura to revolve around ammo. Veterans have gameplay identities that are not “walking ammo dispenser”.

Personally this is the last thing i would want to see for the auras. Veterans class identity should be more than just being an ammo aura bot for the team.
Yeah tweaks to survivalist and for veteran in general are probably needed to make his shooty builds little less reliant on map pickups, but i’d rather get 3 auras that actually have more thought put into it than which of the ammo buffs A, B OR C is preferred for this day of play.

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Honestly I only ever struggle with ammo when there’s a guy picking stuff up and not doing anything relevant with it, i.e. emptying it into poxwalkers or just otherwise wasting all the shots.
The proper solution to that would be the VT2 solution to that though, friendly fire

To be honest, I think any idea of nerf a certain weapon to make the other weapons looks better in use just rediculously dumb.
I think both weapons are fine by now because they don’t really rely on the talents to give them power for successful kills.
It should be considered a little bit more on the Vet talents to buffs the other weapons.
By now. The veteran is actually pretty hard to play and the only combo of PS/Plasma can take you through all the intense fight. Like unlimited armored enemies with mutants.

My take:

The PowerSword is a swimming noodle, nay, a soup/pot noodle until you power it up. Then it’s okay for two to three swishes. Is it any better than the powered Illisi on the Psyker ? Hmm. Horses for courses. No - imo? As Veteran, I still think the Antax V is the better all rounder.

Plasma Gun. Yeah, it’s pretty good. I don’t think the simple primary shot vs charged primary is particularly well balanced. One to look at. But I do think it’s a gun that rewards skill more than most. That’s a good thing all in all. Is it a game ender? No.

If we’re looking at balance, then sure - throw these in to the pot. But there are a LOT of weapons out there that need looking at. And P.S. - yours is yet another “veteran centric” view of the world, and that’s so last month’s forum moan ™.

Power Maul. Tactical Axes. Obscurus. Hellbores. Shotfuns. Purgatus Flamer. Lasguns. Laspistols. Catacham Marks. Turolsky Marks. Rumbler. Surge Staff.

blah

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Why not just have ammo be a shared resource?

Ie. when one person picks up ammo everyone gets some.

This is a trash take.
Even when you 1hit kill an enemy with the plasma left click, your ttk is still worse than with multiple other guns, because you have a delay on your shot.

If you nerfed plasma left click damage, it would lose a bunch of 1 shot breakpoints that you can get if you invest into all kinds of headshot bonuses and other stuff. That would double the plasmagun ttk, although it is already outperformed by other weapons.

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Blockquote
Power swords (both marks) have terrible mobility.

Yeah when I was wording it, I hesitated a bit. All I meant was that its mobility isn’t absolute garbage, compared to the good ol’ thunderhammer. I took the thunderhammer as a reference since the power sword could kill a crusher faster, while the thunderhammer should’ve been specialized for killing single targets, and its drawbacks are low moblity and bad horde clearing. The reality is, the power sword is better at killing crushers and maulers, while being more mobile. What’s more ridiculus is that the power sword can handle a group of ragers better than the heavy swords.

As for the plasma gun, I think we can agree.

For the auras though, it’s true that the original survivalist was too strong, so I only proposed to lower the cooldown to 2 seconds instead of reverting it back to no cooldown; but also, the other 2 auras are underwhelming. I agree with your take that the auras are perks that should help the builds. But 5% increase in some stats really isn’t changing much IMHO. When I’m playing as a zealot, or a gun psyker, sometimes I prefer bots that can regen my ammo then a veteran replacing it with some 5% extra damage or 5% speed, unless if the veteran is absolutely killing them heretics. Idealistically, the veteran class should be a mostly ranged class, hence why I proposed the power sword nerf and the ammo auras.

And if you asked for a hammer buff I’d have been with you.

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Is there anyone that thinks that TH wasn’t just trashed the instant elite health was increased and TH not compensated? Anyone?

TH is actually more mobile.


I mean seriously don’t take TH as a comparison point, it was done dirty.

The emphasis here is its left click damage is actually good against carapace and flak armored enemies, especially carapace. And it’s only outperformed by the bolter. But again, the plasma gun is better than the bolter in terms of mag size and accuracy. Also auto vent completely trivializes the heat mechanic.
I don’t think we need to nerf the the left click damage against unarmored enemies, but only the heavy armor ones.

One could indeed argue for a slight nerf of carapace damage on the left click.
Against anything else than carapace, the plasma is already outperformed by other guns regarding ttk.
As i said, nerfing it against flak or maniac for example, would completely cripple the weapon by doubling the ttk (since it is currently just barely able to get 1 shot breakpoints on headshots, when combining a lot of bonuses from the talent tree).
The ttk against many specialists and elites is already outperformed by other guns, without requiring headshots and without needing as heavy of an investment.

It doesn‘t because the heat mechanic still prevents you from mag dumping.
When there is a lot of shooting going on, the heat mechanic is much more restrictive than the actual reloads on other guns.

Blockquote
yours is yet another “veteran centric” view of the world

Ironically, I came from a zealot main perspective. You know the feeling when you’re supposed to be a heavily melee class, but some dude from the ranged class has a melee weapon that outshines every weapon in your melee class. Like I said, the power sword can kill crushers faster than the thunderhammer, and clear hordes/ragers faster than the heavy sword.

Blockquote
Power Maul. Tactical Axes. Obscurus. Hellbores. Shotfuns. Purgatus Flamer. Lasguns. Laspistols. Catacham Marks. Turolsky Marks. Rumbler. Surge Staff.

Give me one example of these melee weapons that kills a crusher faster than the power sword? None. Or one example that clears a mob faster? Also none. In terms of ranged weapons compared to the plasma gun, give one example among them that are effective against crushers? Oh yea there’s the helbores and the surge staff. But guess what, you actually need to charge these weapons to effectively damage a crushers. And the psyker actually needs to control their peril when using a surge staff, whereas the plasma gun auto vents down to 80% heat just can just keep left clicking.

Blockquote
nerfing it against flak or maniac for example, would completely cripple the weapon by doubling the ttk

Give me one example weapon that outperforms the plasma gun in terms of killing a group of maulers. The auto guns might kill one mauler faster, but then the plasma gun can easily cleave through multiple maulers, stun them by dealing heatshots. The bolter would need to reload after only killing a couple of them.

Pointless to talk about this.

Due to the plasma gun‘s cleave, it will always beat other guns, when clearing many enemies, if you are able to hit enough of them at the same time.
Most of the time, you do not hit many elites with the same shot though.

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