ik asking people to pay attention to this first part where i say THIS IS NOT A DUDE WITH A EXTENSIVE CAREER AS A GAME DEV NOR NECESSARILY EVEN A TOP TIER PLAYERS OPINION AND IS JUST A DUDE WHO RUNS HERECY MOST OF THE TIME AND MALICE WHEN I GET HOME FROM WORK SO TAKE WHAT I SAY WITH A METRIC TON OF MSG…
ok, everyone suffciently ignore that first part and ready to flambast a dude just basically talking into the void for fun to kill some time and see if the void actually decides to talk back? great! ok so i think the martydom perk and all related perks should be changed where martydom no longer gives a berserker style dmg boost per stack since zealot is a frontline horde clearer and off tank whereas the ogryn is the hard tank and because of this, i think it should be changed to still have its stacks and stack buildup mechanics but the benefit is passive health regen. this would increase from a base of no stacks perhaps healing 2hp/sec perhaps exponentially per stack with a max of 3 stacks at base but a possibility of 6 stacks with that one trait. (to match that the zealot can have 6 wound states)
personally i feel this change would help keep zealot in the front lines and deal with the chip dmg through toughness that is fine for other classes as it helps keep them balanced forcing them to be protected lest they start taking serious dmg to their health if they are careless and forgot that its only supposed to be the ogryn and zealot on the frontlines while finally not punishing a zealot for failing to make sure that one damn nurglite didnt get to tickle your ass or not being able to destroy that rager because they didnt see them in time or they also wanted to tickle the zealots ass and none of his team helped him. (we all know why that is and for those in the back who dont, ill just say it aint the teams fault and us zealots accept our fates)
Well, as you don’t want discussion, i will just ask one thing.
Why making a thread? You should have posted the idea on discord…
More seriously, problem of martyr is that the bonus is good but the feat that is increasing the number of stack doesn’t sound good.
But I continue to use it mainly cause I always choose to get health back when until the death starts. This means that, having martyrdom here is great to recover more hp.
But a passive regen? Too OP
And zealot is my prefered class.
nah man im cool with disccusion but just have seen one too many times people jumping down my throat as if i have murdered the devs and raised their corpses and what i say is now law when its just a idea im shooting into the void since i find it fun. hell even if that wasnt the case, i simply feel its better to at least throw my idea onto the table of discussion so maybe if the devs see my idea they might be able to spin it into something that would actually work and run with it or it could influence their thought process in general to make them decide that my idea might be worth trying.
how so? if it works in stacks to make it go from 2 to 4 to 8 and and perhaps just up by 4hp/sec for every stack after with the specific trait to boost its total to 6 which mind you would only help stop chip dmg from killing you but a single sniper shot or perhaps with a small addition like say health doesnt regen if dogs, trappers, or muties have you pinned as well and nevermind having 6 wouldnt states would mean max you get a extra 15% hp from the curious perks EACH having a +5% hp boost meaning being on that last bar would mean you get the full 6 stacks which could mean 20hp/sec being healed so if you can keep your toughness up you wont die at least to a horde but still one sniper shot or getting pinned once and your dead. it just makes it so zealot isnt so much of a “i like this… BUT ALSO THERES THIS…” meme type thing hes got going with veteran where for those who havent seen the meme and just want to know what i mean, im saying hes not bad but when veteran can do what he does better AND also deal with ranged units, elites, and specialists better, it makes ya wonder why zealot exists…
Health is a resource that is arguably too abundant as it is. Zealot is already a very survivable class, this would just let them kite for ages and have unreasonably good resistance to attrition. I don’t think you’ll find anyone who wants a challenge from this game agreeing with such a suggestion. Health regen generally is a dangerously good tool, I’d prefer they avoided giving it out in this game at all.
i mean look at it from this perspective, when faced with vets overwhelming power that ecliped all other classes leaving the need for only one player who knows how to tank welllll enoughhh with whatever of the other 3 classes they want and you can handle damntation too easily, they chose to MASSIVELY buff psyker first who was percieved as the weakest because of how the peril system worked out. like as it stands now its a hard choice of whos stronger between psyker and vet and the reason is because with horde games or pve games that are power fantasies at their core, you dont take away power to balance sh*t but instead you make it a point to make sure its equally jacked power across the board because you can than jack the difficulty even higher to match the new power level and make sure there is always a challenge. just look at payday 2 which arguably didnt release well and very quickly became to easy for players only for everything to be pushed to 11 player wise so most everything is awesomely strong with than mayhem difficulty, death wish difficulty, and death sentance difficutly dropping and even the one down modifier all culminating in making payday 2 easily one of the most beloved horde games that basically all other horde shooters compare themselves too to see if they are doing good yet.
I don’t really agree with anything you said tbh.
I am pretty good as in I can regularly clear damnation and hi-in but still working on even beating dam hi-in STG.
Chip damage doesn’t really happen often at all once you get good enough only when you
What really kills you is the specials and disablers just separating your team and you instantly going down to bad positioning and disable.
Passive hp regen would really break the game flow especially with how you got to keep moving forward or you run out of ammo and endless spawns of specials.
I think there was a leak or rumor that a future subclass would regenerate corruption damage, but that’s probably as far as health regen should go. As others have said it would make the game way too easy.
Health regeneration in a game like this is kinda nuts and would really upset the balance, I think. And, at the risk of being an ass, Zealot is extremely strong right now and doesn’t exactly need help.
Also, math wise, healing 2hp/sec per stack with 6 stacks is 12 health per second, you’d be borderline immortal. That combined with his ability to not die for a few seconds would be way too strong.
Heck, just imagine 4 Zealots running through a map. I doubt you would even need medicaid.
see alsozara? this is what i was asking for is feedback that aint accusing me of being a fing demon hellbent on destorying the game that literally needs to be screamed to death before i can move like the heretic i am… now to respond to the comments with a general idea that could still give the feeling im thinkin about, perhaps it could work in a manner where elite or maybe just ogryn and mutie kills with melee weapons proc a passive that heals for perhaps 25 hp. that way the occasional chip dmg becomes less of a issue truly making it worth having a zealot in a squad because you can be sure they arent gonna need to worry about slowly dieing to chip dmg AND without martydom which is more of a meme passive meant for malice fun, you wont have to worry that the zealot will be running around herecy missions with literally 15 hp for full stacks guranteed to die at the first chip dmg that tags em as they charge into the literal center of the horde.
basically all im saying is that the whatever whatever faith trait that heals a small amount of hp back on taking dmg and than dealing dmg for a very short period is what im saying the zealot needs to make zealot match the same level as vet and now psyker.
How on earth did you get that from my previous comment? I challenge you to find a single other person in this thread that would interpret my comment in that tone whatsoever.
XD oh sh*t i didnt even realize you were a differnt person to that og first comment XD my bad on that one [quote=“Ralendil, post:2, topic:77860, full:true”]
Well, as you don’t want discussion, i will just ask one thing.
Why making a thread? You should have posted the idea on discord…
More seriously, problem of martyr is that the bonus is good but the feat that is increasing the number of stack doesn’t sound good.
But I continue to use it mainly cause I always choose to get health back when until the death starts. This means that, having martyrdom here is great to recover more hp.
But a passive regen? Too OP
And zealot is my prefered class.
[/quote]
this was who i was thinking of but because i saw the comment so early and yours came right after and quoted the how so randomly when you coulda just stated your idea is what made my sleepless brain that literally was running on 14 hours of caffine from mt dew to try to stay awake derp so sry but also maybe next time when you see a comment like my first one under the main comment and not adress to you, dont quote it unless you want it to look like your responding to that comment specifically XD
The current regen with until the death is balanced cause you have to take risks to be able to recover lot of HP.
Let’s say it, sometimes it works… Sometimes it makes me down, most of the times I get a little of life from it.
But I agree that we don’t need more regen capacity.
Believe or not, there is also a reason why you would want to run on low hp.
There’s a feat that gives you 6 martyrdom stack, and one that increase the rate of your melee attacks. Combinated, this can buff you a lot.
As said by others here, when you’re really good, the only problem are disablers that caught you by surprise in middle of a melee.
I am not here. I play damnation now without having to fear failing. But, as a zealot, I can get yet damages.
But, with the training, I start to play better and better.
I’d like to use this thread as a chance to discuss Martyrdom generally as well as Honour the Martyr (HtM from here on out) in particular.
I don’t really have any problem with the passive itself. It helps you out a bit if you’re in a bad situation and has natural synergy with holy revenant, the issue really crops up with the feat. HtM currently offers less bonus damage than rising conviction while simultaneously being a much worse condition to activate it. The only thing I’d change about it is to give it the additional effect of reducing the lost health requirement per stack from 15% down to 10% as well as allowing up to 6 stacks. Instead of being below 10% health to reach 6 stacks you would now be able to achieve that at below 40% health. Being below 70% health would still be giving you 3 stacks so you wouldn’t even have to be that low on health to get some benefit from it.
Obviously that alone wouldn’t make it competitive with Rising Conviction, so concurrently to that change I would also modify the Retribution feat (bonus attack speed on low health) to be tied to Martyrdom stacks instead of the current 50% and 20% hp thresholds it has. I’d make it +3% (+4% if you want to be less conservative) attack speed per martyrdom stack. Now these two feats have good synergy. Running both at once would allow you to have ~+20% attack speed if you can maintain your HP around/just below the 40% mark.
Zealot is a very good class overall but there’s no ignoring that HtM is currently a dead feat, meanwhile retribution is a feat that gets picked mostly in situations where the other 2 in that column simply don’t offer your melee weapon of choice much tangible benefit. My proposed change would hopefully address both and make a competitive low health Zealot build.
Not entirely true… maybe i am alone, but that’s my preferred feat in this row.
Especially cause I use it with Retribution (Gain 10% Attack Speed when below 50% health, doubled when below 20% health) and Holy Revenant. Sometimes I even add Fury of the Faithful.
This can permit me to recover lot of HP when until the death starts. Also, this makes me handling more damages when at low HPs.
hmm i guess thats a intersting take. honestly i think thats the best i have heard it described and while i still stand by the idea that maybe along with a LOOONNNGGG cooldown ability that clears corruption for you and teams within like maybe 5m, it could also be intersting if one of the purifiers passives was to regen maybe 15 hp on elite kill for you and your allies with a heavy focus on crowd clearing close range weapons like shotties, flamers, and bolters with the idea being you hide in the center of the group and any kill anyone within coherency gets on a elite heals should be healing everyone that small amount of like that 10 or 15 hp to deal with chip dmg for the squisher characters. the purifier could also have their iconic make it so all flame weapons (flamers and incin shotguns and any other fun ideas for flame based weapons like maybe a flame pistol or rifle or somethin ) would have a reduced ammo cost or perhaps double ammo total.
honestly thinking about it, and after having played a good bit more zealot, without the fun swooshy swooshy power sword to have that neuron activation fun, i dont think his current roster of weapons aside from the flamer is for me which also funnly is the same reason i dont play ogryn even tho I LOVE his tankiness although they both have some pretty meh drip in my humble fahsion souls fan opinon and therefore drown for me on a base level XD
I assume you’re talking specifically about retribution here and not HtM. Yes I agree Retribution generally already has arguments for it especially with holy rev. You should still never take HtM with this setup since you’re still doing more damage even at 1 HP with rising conviction instead.
The retribution change is less about it being bad currently and more about introducing more cross feat tree synergies, as well as aligning the different HP thresholds so they match each other. It’s just kind of confusing and needless that Retribution has entirely different health thresholds than martyrdom currently.
You’re not really helping your case by starting with that tbh.
So turning the Zealot’s Damage buff mechanic into a straight up tanking/sustain one ?
Which would be working against itself ? And there is also on a global design point, where they went away from THP, in favour of Toughness.
The idea isn’t great, it would make the Zealot Preacher into something else, going from the religious maniac to some sort of tanky regeneration sponge. Which should and most likely will happen in the future with a Crusader themed Class for the Zealot
As a Zealot main, I already have sustains in melee via the additional toughness generation (When multiple enemies are close by/flat toughness generation upgrade/crit to gain toughness) and the better stamina count (To dodge).
So maybe the problem is less about having not enough sustains and more about spacing and placements on your parts
) would have a reduced ammo cost or perhaps double ammo total.