A Havoc 40 Veteran’s Statement on the Game play present situation

[Index]

@jerrooo

like Darktide where 99% of my fun is in being self-sufficient and overcoming impossible odds

that’s the saaaame feeling I have when putting in my best and pushing limits.

I never, for the live of me, could understand people celebrating a soccer match, doing little to nothing themselves and proclaimed “we won”

“we what?”

the havoc 40 match I did to prove a point wasn’t won by me, but the zealot that clutched while the 3 of us failed.

got no shame in admitting failure, I took my non-meta whatever build cause it suits my playstyle and I got pretty far with it despite 2 mates down already and stuff zerging in on zealot and my big-target man.

so yeah, i “failed” not “we won”

that’s the mindset so alien to the core of what I define as ambition/skill/determination to make the best “you”.

no matter what’s around or happening.

yes, there’s efficient loadouts and team configuration and yes these win matches.

but how much of these synergies are due to my skill level or merely enabled through the action of others, THATS the difference that makes a win worthless and a loss “skillful” sometimes.

last I checked, emprah be praised, game didnt have a tarkov or battlefield stats page with your win rate open for the whole world (those who care anyways, but lets call it “boasting rights” to settle an argument)

so the only thing “boast-worthy” is the amount I put into this victory, not the bubble, smoke or yellow phone book.

and in that regard, while havoc throws “more” at you its the modifiers that don’t make it necessarily “harder” than an auric maelstrom solo clutch or heck even start to finish solo run.

but the cushion and safety net of the meta-loadouts “ensuring” success where personal skill failed.

and again I’d rather fail 10x and win 1 in a glorious “above and beyond” “kark, i spilled my corpse starch” jaw dropper to show em “how it’s done”

[Antilus]

when you play with friends you should only give advice if they ask, or when you see your strategies are not working and you propose better ones

@jerrooo

being self-sufficient and overcoming impossible odds.

but if by this you mean picking knife on zealot to owl for your team mates dying to farm content for your montages of solo clutches like i see a lot of on youtube (and everyone praising them in the comments for playing off meta in havoc 40), then i can understand why your friends don’t approve of your style

in havoc 40 you are expected to bring a minimum to the table, you really don’t want to be the last wheel of the wagon

[jerrooo]

@Antilus

if by this you mean picking knife on zealot to owl for your team mates dying to farm content for your montages of solo clutches like i see a lot of on youtube

Nice extrapolation. I stated in my post what I brought. It was vet with gold-toughness shout + kraks (really all you need for h40 rotten armor nowadays) and weap. specialist + double barrel infinite-cleave bleed build. Quite different from stealth knife zealot farming revives. Teammates were simply unhappy I didn’t bring plasmagun or some other long-ranged weapon.

[Antilus]

then i agree with you on this one, killing gunners is not the vet’s job anymore, since patch 13

i’ve been berated many times for my negligence on killing snipers and gunners when i was just enjoying my melee life

also for locking down onto the bosses instead of securing the area from threats, until it became the meta having the vet doing the bosses

thing is i always been sensible enough to notice that players morale decreases over time the more the boss music still play

[jerrooo]

The funny thing about this related to my post is that one of their criticisms was “he can’t kill the gunners and snipers” but they were literally watching me do it with double barrel during spectator mode. The bleed + min pellet count mechanic means they die in 2 hits even at long range. So that wasn’t even the issue either, they were just locked into their idea of how the game should be played, they were blind to other possibilities and blaming things that weren’t even problems.

[Antilus]

it takes many years to cultivate a friend grup that learn how to respect each others in gaming situations, and even then there can be arguments, the crux of the matter is the willingness of the members of the group to do it

[Index]

@Antilus

it takes many years

buddy pirx be bestest friend for 30 years in ‘26 and yes you need to know how to “take” one another.

then again, this level of friendship is very rare and hard to come by, far less so by online gaming sometimes continents apart.

so, working solution through all seasons of havoc so far

(and yes I only fkked up once but since I usually do my 40 and be off, I didnt bother doing a “cleaner” run when I did 3 seasons already)

is a nice german proverb “wenn jeder an sich selber denkt, ist an jeden gedacht”

“if everyone looks out for himself, everybody’s thought of”

heck pirx and I play on discord and I still can’t shake the bad habit of solo runs ahead sometimes.

when the lure’s out the hound’s gotta catch every now and then

extrapolate that on randoms without comms and I dont care one bit what they bring to havoc

@Antilus

then there can be arguments

that’s another thing why we don’t do “strangers”

30 odd years, we don’t hold back with cussing and yet it’s all ingame talk and stays there as far as we’re concerned.

some random dude getting all “offended”, the match’s a bust cause he can’t reel himself in again for the sake of arguments.

so, silence is often gold—>voice off with randoms

and yet, see above, every season havoc “done”

last ones I checked were pretty equally distributed at the output, didnt lack in damage or kills for what i was using.

(yes book and bubble was picked, no non-meta oggy wasn’t “carried", folk themselves went down for example with me picking em up)

[tobjen99]

More Player Power Creep to solve Enemies Power Creep is not a good solution in my experience. Making more stuff viable through buffs, tweaks and QoL would be appreciated. However nerfs are also needed. Then one can balance Havoc around the power level of the player characters

[tobjen99]

I must say that this is a rather interesting discussion, civil and a little repedetive, however it shows a big difference in culture. I will be generalistic here:

The Western one which is more induvidualistic and cares more about trying new stuff and being able to clutch.

The Asian one is more teamplay focused and values consistency and winrates to make sure you win and do not let down your teammates.

Because of these differences in understanding of the game and mainely how it should be played, it is very difficult to agree on how to solve these balance issues.

I agree with a lot of points in this discussion.

What I think are good ideas I have seen here:

• balance the game around Damnation/Auric, everything should be usable here and nothing should trivalize Auric/Malestorms
• A part of this^^ could/should be new dangerous enemies that are not carapace, but maybe maniac or Infested
• Balance Havoc after balancing the rest of the game around Damntion/Auric
• More content to the Base gamemode: New modifiers, maps, enemies

[Lafiel]

Op post is so full of stupid perceived metas and ideas about the mode it isn’t even funny.

Professional Veteran player in another universe for sure.

[ramrod_ikarus]

Vet sucks post update, iron will is mandatory and well calculated into the power level. It is a fools defense which drops when you need it most but sadly there is no alternative in the tree.

On the other hand vet is granted every damage increase thinkable on a silver platter.

So hurray you dish out damage like a hose until you get inevitably blapped. Really sucked the fun out of the class in one update. I wish they would hide ironwill on some last node again or better in a keystone node and re-add plain toughnes damage reduction nodes.

[alexogren]

Rarely do I see this quality of a post. What a take..

If Fatshark listens to this Havok is playable again. (Zealot was my main, pre cooldown nerf)

Also I would add, make more weapons viable. And I can hear you.. “all weapons are viable if your teamwork is good enough” - but no.. they’re so not. Just go Zealot with heavy sword in havok and come back and tell us about it. Players using weapons outside meta rarely play on havok and if they’re using them it’s only to break the boredom of using the same meta weapons. To be clear, most classes can choose 1 or 2 melee weapons on havok and 1 or 2 ranged in most cases. WHY fatshark are you so afraid of buffing weapons more? So what if something gets to be overpowered between patches and hotfixes, It’s not a pvp game.

[harlekein]

When I see takes like this it comfirms Havoc was a mistake.

[Antilus]

imagine a darktide where everything would be balanced around chainsword level lets say

[Vror]

Seems you learned nothing over the 3 years you didn’t post