A Havoc 40 Veteran’s Statement on the Game play present situation

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
82

What you said here already doesn’t make sense. Two parts of this statement don’t even count as a coherent sentence, sorry.

“Casual” players (as much as you can call somebody playing at Damnation and Auric “a casual’ in a broad sense of the word) ARE the majority of paying customers, and ARE the most important demographic as such, for an online project that requires annual payments for servers upkeep, and also funds to develop and add new content for years to come. It’s simply a fact.

And yes, they “don’t represent you” - but how is it of any importance to anybody, except you, the tiny percentage of the community? It’s not a Democracy Simulator 1.0, it’s a commercial enterprise aiming at earning some money. And to earn money it needs their infrastructure to exist, in the first place. No wide audience - no money. So you will never be a focus target group of FS, if they know anything about running their business.

Sheesh, this arrogance the “pro players” demonstrate again and again is baffling. “Hur durr I’m so skilled at some computer game, so that everything now needs to be revolving around me”. Dude, like, exhale your farts :slight_smile: You want community to support your concerns - try to not alienate the most numerous part of it from the get go, may be?

That said, I’m not against making high lv Havoc more enjoyable for the (whatever small) part of the community that plays there. But it must be done in such way those changes won’t be imported into the lower difficulties, ruining the game for people there. There are multiple ways to do it, like providing special, unique powerups for high lv Havoc specifically (new carryable items, blesses, higher tier gear etc) for example. It’s not a new problem, and other online projects solved it some way or another before.

P.S.

And btw, you can only be “a professional veteran player” if you are being paid for that. That’s the meaning of being a professional (according to the thesaurus). Don’t use big words to look big.

83

You make a fair point, and I really appreciate the fresh perspective you’ve provided.

On the Hong Kong servers, many players — especially those in PUGs (Pick-Up Groups) — have only one goal: to clear Havoc.
It’s not that “experimenting with new ways to play” doesn’t exist; quite the opposite — in my community, such players definitely exist, and in large numbers.
But the key difference is that they only team up with like-minded players who share the same curiosity and willingness to experiment.
They don’t jump into public lobbies with strangers and justify it as “exploring new playstyles.”

Because in Havoc, if you fail, you’re just wasting everyone’s time.
It’s fine if you do it with friends — no one minds trying new things together —
but from the perspective of random teammates, it’s extremely frustrating.
The thought is basically:

“Why don’t you test your little experiments with people who agreed to it,
instead of wasting our time — we’re just here to clear the damn mission?”

In the Chinese community, there are also many complaints that foreign players (those with English IDs and Steam names) often have poor mechanical skill, can’t communicate effectively,
and refuse to use meta builds that best support the team in Havoc or Maelstrom.
Honestly, if a Chinese player behaved the same way, they’d face just as much backlash and verbal aggression.

In the previous version, the Arbites (Judge class) also wasn’t well-received on the Hong Kong servers.
Despite being individually strong — both in melee and ranged combat — the Arbites lacked team-support capabilities,
which made them the “weakest link” in what used to be the traditional four-man composition.
Even though none of the Arbites’ tools were truly bad,
compared to the classic core four classes, it was still the short plank in the barrel —
and because of that, most HK Havoc players rejected it.

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84

To be honest, when the patch dropped and Zealots got nerfed, a lot of Zealot mains felt lost — even though, truthfully, many of them were just “carried players” who expected to clear Havoc Level 40 with minimal skill.
That path has now been completely cut off by Fatshark, and the overall difficulty of Havoc 40 has increased by around 30%.
But interestingly, most people didn’t complain — they simply tried their best to adapt and find new ways to survive.

As someone who primarily plays Veteran, if my goal were just to take the easiest route through Havoc 40, I’d have simply played Zealot in the last version — or, in this one, just rolled a “Screen Door Zombie” (the slang we use for a shield Ogryn focused entirely on taunting and tanking, a role with extremely low skill requirements).
But I didn’t.
I still try to clear every match as a Veteran, regardless of how brutal Havoc 40 becomes.

What truly confuses and frustrates me, though, is that whenever Fatshark sees a playstyle that players have carefully developed — for example, the double-Veteran sustained War Cry setup with Golden Toughness — it immediately gets nerfed.
That’s not increasing difficulty; that’s just discouraging creativity.

Buffing enemies, adding new modifiers, or changing environmental conditions are all acceptable ways to increase challenge.
But punishing players for discovering strong and coordinated team strategies — that’s what really kills motivation.

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85

LMAO, that so-called Tai Chi master was basically just an elderly aerobics instructor — that’s honestly what most of what’s called Tai Chi today really is.
Back in the 1960s, when China hosted its first Traditional Martial Arts Competitions, many genuine martial arts styles still had lethal combat applications.
They included techniques to gouge out eyes from impossible angles, crush throats and balls, or cripple limbs beyond recovery.
The result was tons of severe injuries, disabilities, and even deaths.

So the Chinese government stepped in and banned the lethal parts of martial arts, forcing everything to become performance- and fitness-oriented instead.
That’s why most martial arts you see today on the market have very little real combat effectiveness left.

Anyway, cultural differences are totally understandable —
but unless your skill is on a god-tier, gap-breaking level, you’ll still need your teammates to clear Havoc.

You actually remind me of a professional Zealot player I once knew.
He said something very similar to you, and one of his teammates joked:

“If you’re that good, you should be able to solo clear Havoc Level 40 without us, right?”

So he actually went and did it —
he made a solo Havoc 40 clear video,
and it completely blew everyone’s minds, mine included.

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86

I watched two of your videos, and my personal assessment is as follows:

In the first video, you would have almost certainly failed that Damnation run without the Zealot and the Psycher. It’s similar to another video you posted (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtmSeTcuzbk) — and that one wasn’t even on Damnation. Your team was getting knocked around by the boss; you couldn’t deal with it quickly, and your teammates became extremely vulnerable the moment they were separated from the Ogryn’s protection.

In the second video, your teammates were using the most meta builds of that patch: the Zealot with the meta-speed prayer and the Psycher with the meta flame and shield build. What I found most amusing was that after you failed to dodge the Crusher’s overhead smash twice in a row, you still had nearly half your health left. If that had been any other class (Zealot, Psycher, or Veteran), they would have been downed immediately.

To be frank, you have some experience in how to play an Ogryn. However:

  1. Your team was effectively carrying you.
  2. I find it quite ironic that you criticize others for playing meta builds when you can’t even dodge a single Crusher overhead.
87

I seem to have forgotten to remove the redundant part, but it’s of no consequence.

88

first fix that translator of yours, havoc 40 aint damnation or whatever you want to call it

second

whatever helps you sleep at night.

go for it without a premade and without voice com, moreover a non meta loadout and let me see if you kiss the dirt fast or not.

stop talking out of your rear when asking for footage, got footage that shows being done as claimed and start nitpicking.

hide inside a premade for all I care, zero respect from me for that “achievement”

aaah yes, that’s why no war since the dawn of man had been fought in hand to hand combat… truly “deadly and effective”

but sure, “national treasure” and all that, I get it

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89

  1. In the video, you were hit twice by the Crusher’s hammer and still had almost half your health left. This would be unimaginable for any other class.

  2. Since both of your clear videos feature meta builds, why did you comment “if they can’t win by other means i’d rather say :fu: them” in another post? I can’t find that specific post now, but on a related note, I’ve confirmed with my friends that the original poster of that thread is notorious on the Asian servers. He deliberately deceives teammates to qualify for tournaments, only to sabotage the matches, causing his team to fail. He has done this repeatedly, to the point where almost every Damnation player on the Asian servers knows about him.

90

where is my ogryn full health knife build meta?

I guess you missed the point where I said I don’t care what others in the team pick play.

bit hard to enforce loadouts on strangers you don’t even talk to no?

you still dont get it or it’s really “normal” there,

here you dont “qualify” or “ask” for anything you do as you damn well please.

hell freezes over before I “apply” to an obscure wannabe if I play my game in my

but say what, this leads nowhere and I’m very glad not to play on asian servers, solo mode can’t come fast enough

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91

I watched the video you uploaded, and I’ve got to say — the previous patch you’re playing on isn’t really a fair point of reference anymore. Everything I’ve been talking about refers to the current build, the one with Stimmed enemies and Plasma Gunners added to the roster.

This patch’s difficulty has gone up by roughly 30% compared to the version you recorded in, and it shows — you clearly have solid fundamentals as an Ogryn, no doubt about that. But honestly, I can’t imagine how you managed to tank through the current Havoc conditions — we’re talking dozens of Crushers and Bulwark, sometimes all rolling Corrupted Armor and Stimm’d modifiers, charging straight at you.

If you don’t mind, drop your Fatshark ID — I’d be happy to run a Havoc match with you sometime and see how you handle the new patch firsthand.

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92

是吗？说说他的名字呗 :rofl: 说不定我也认识呢

93

I don’t think your Ogryn gameplay is bad. My examples were only meant to prove a few points:

  1. While you criticize meta builds, your teammates used meta builds to help you complete the mission.
  2. When you said you don’t care about other people’s builds (this seems to be the meaning from the translation software; perhaps there was a mistake, and you can explain it again, thank you), the builds your teammates chose shouldered a lot of the pressure.
  3. When you play other classes, do you perform as comfortably as you do with the Ogryn, or would you exhaust all your ammunition within the first four minutes?
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94

According to my friends on other forums, his in-game ID is “智知者”. He is known for switching to bizarre builds right before a match starts and enjoys trash-talking his teammates after the game ends.

95

“I think I sent this reply to the wrong person. Oops.”

96

ok one more time trying to explain, if the mode forces me into a playstyle to accommodate to the point of not playing freely, I won’t do it.

what’s so hard to get about the idea that if you “need” people to reach a goal it’s not worth reaching in my book

especially if other modes give the opportunity to “fly solo with audience”

I really can’t explain it any harsher

I don’t “dislike” other players or dont help them in a lurch, I simply refuse to be just another appendage to a foreign body.

nope, not gonna happen.

only dude I play with is a real life friend of mine, like I said I fly solo.

if I choose to do a havoc 40 its certainly getting uploaded

besides I got 1500+ matches uploaded to date, if that doesn’t show “how I play” then I cant help.

and if a mode restricts that way to the point of having to be subservient to others, then I.. don’t…play….it :man_shrugging:

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98

Cultural differences are wild.

When 90% of Havoc players use the exact same build, how is that creativity?

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100

It seems you have overlooked a very important point: Havoc mode does not force you to use a specific deck composition. The reason you are recommended to use more commonly adopted strategies on the Asian server is simply that many players aim to complete Havoc mode and obtain the rewards (such as outfits or titles). Of course, you and your friends are free to experiment with any composition to try and clear Havoc mode.

However, imagine this: after a long, tiring day, you finally relax and decide to clear Havoc mode, only to end up losing due to teammates with varying skill levels and unconventional deck choices. That experience would undoubtedly be frustrating, wouldn’t it?

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101

There is a common sentiment among the western community, particularly with popular YouTubers and playtesters, that golden toughness breaks the game and limits skill expression by removing consequences for mistakes. They argue that the presence of gold toughness in its current implementation actually limits build diversity by forcing these classes to always run these abilities and forcing every meta composition to include these classes. Hence, this is why you’re seeing nerfs to cooldown reduction and golden toughness uptime.

I think they would have preferred game balance stay the same with the removal or reduction of these abilities’ effectiveness, the added difficulty to the game simply coming from gold toughness being less available. Instead, we’re getting these nerfs alongside a significant step-up in Havoc’s difficulty. So, I think your frustrations are warranted.

I think I’ll finally drop my own opinion here, too. The current iteration of Havoc is not fun for me and my friend group. Walls of unkillable enemies which severely punish any small miatake while simultaneously taking forever to kill and blocking your visibility of the real threats gets old fast. When the only reasonable way to get through an encounter is to abuse infintite cleave and rending/brittleness bonuses, I honestly feel like the game becomes a tedius slog. As a result, we’re taking a small break from Darktide and letting our Havoc ranks slip. Just my 2 cents.

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102

You are right, but I fail to see the creativity.

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103

Their team comp is different from eu/na servers. They run smoke melee vet and krak plasma/bolter vet at the same time to counter Garden and Rotten modifiers. You might say the difference is minimal, but it’s still unique in a way.

In the western part of the community people rarely run 2 Vets in the same lobby, it’s more likely to see 2 Zealots, 2 Psykers or 2 Ogryns in the same lobby, and only then you’d think about two Vets.

Vet as a class has too much overlap of talents, meaning there’s not much point in running 2 Vets, unless you specifically run smoke grenades which have niche for the hyper aggressive teams who constantly dive enemies in melee, instead of carefully picking off targets at range while keeping gold toughness and bubble flowing.

The creativity is absolutely there, people just decide to not partake in it, because they don’t want to be a burden.

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