Another problem is that this change punish players for being good. The quicker you kill elite/special the less ammo you get.
Imagine you run into 4 elites and kill them all in less than 5 seconds, you wil get fewer ammo than player who take 11 seconds to kill them
6 Likes
As I said in another thread I think option 2 is the only one that can reasonably please everyone. Iâm fine with Vet shooting a lot, Iâm less fine with them facilitating their whole team to shoot a lot. I also think itâs the only way Vet auras will feasibly be balanceable against each other. Vet can keep pre nerf survivalist ammo regen if itâs only applying to them, though I still think the way the proc condition scales into Auric is a bit of an issue with no cooldown, but if itâs reworked into a passive/talent they could also just shift that to a passive ammo regen over time or something that doesnât turn dog waves into an ammo crate youâre actively happy to see.
Well yes, because your reward for killing them quickly is, yâknow, removing the threats before they can start a negative spiral for your team. I just donât find it credible that anyone is gonna start counting seconds before killing their next special to optimise ammo regen, which Iâve seen suggested multiple times as an issue now and it just seems absurd.
1 Like
for reference these were the original abilities Vet had when most people bought the game
Be Prepared : Increase ammo reserve for all ranged weapons by 40%.
Scavenger : You and allies in Coherency gain a small amount of ammo whenever any of you kill an Elite enemy.
Confirmed Kill : Replenish 25% Toughness on Elite kill and a further 25% Toughness over time.
Demolition Stockpile : Replenish 1 Grenade(s) every 60s.
Unwavering Focus : +75% Toughness damage reduction from ranged attacks during Volley Fire.
One After Another : +30% reload speed on Elite and Specialist kill.
Sustained Fire : Volley Fire Reloads your weapon and replenishes 60% toughness. Killing a designated enemy during Volley Fire refreshes its duration.
4 Likes
Again, I could live with that myself.
The only thing I donât agree with here is:
The way that this ability gets better the higher the difficulty gets is great design! Thatâs exactly what made Witchhunter Captain in VT2 stand out compared to other classes as he scaled with difficulty.
Yeah, dog waves being a free refill is a bit silly for sure but could be fixed by making those seperate dogs not count for the activation condition. Then again, if this only refilled the vets ammo, I donât really see the problem with that.
If the CD is as low as 1 to 2 sec, absolutely people will wait the timer out. Some guns need you to be this efficient with ammo. The problem is that a short enough CD encourages this Idea, doesnât matter how good of an idea it actually is.
Thatâs probably exactly why the current CD is 5 sec so this is not a viable tactic to pull of on high difficulty
The point is: A CD on ammo aura is a dumb idea
Which was a full 2% of ammo reserves, rounded up to the next full bullet, iirc.
2 Likes
Can anyone confirm whether survivalist can stack with more than one veteran?
i.e. within the same 5 sec window if two veterans are running that perk it will still allow double ammo return provided in aura and 2 elite kills.
Or it is a global 5 sec window across anyone running this perk. Hopefully it is the former.
They could just revert the change, given that not 1 person asked for it?
3 Likes
the thing is if you play Voice of Command veteran you are not a ranged class, even if you spam plasma, Veteran has right to be considered a ranged class only if he runs Volley Fire
i wish every newb would take this in consideration when judging vet abilities
if Vet is bad with executionerâs stance it is a problem, doesnât matter that you ââhave choichesââ
3 Likes
Demolition Team: You and allies in Coherency have a 5% chance to gain a Grenade on enemy kill.
Now itâs only yourself.
People going to have to switch to more efficient guns like Lasguns, Plasma and that 10% melee node has become more attractive and incentive to never waste shooting trash mobs anymore.
Autoguns/Autopistol are worst and I see alot of people waste ammo on trash enemies instead of saving it for elites/disablers. Just like gun psykers it just starves the team of ammo if too many people run guns.
Survivalist perk still useful, at least to get any sort of ammo rather than nothing. Better than a flat 5% team damage increase.
In addition more than ever, people will exit lobbies after viewing otherâs loadout - Avoiding random teams with autogun/autopistol etc to ensure they wonât be ammo starved. So more re-matchmaking. This is why class switching should of been feature in mission lobby because at least then you can switch to another class less ammo dependent on immediate basis without having to exit entirely.
But will probably see more people will exit lobbies based on otherâs gun loadouts even more.
4 Likes
to avoid this whole song and dance Iâll simply just not play veteran for the time beingâŚ
Is what I would say if I was playing DT at all currently.
Now were was my legally distinct boltgun again, I have to manage democracy on marfark
12 Likes
How about everyone equip Survivalist by default?
but the effect only applies to themselves, and when kill specialists.
1 Like
The nerf was dumb and completely unwarranted. The ammo sustain is what made the core shooty class kind of fun to pick over the other classes. Thatâs it. It was just fun. It never broke the game. It didnât negate melee. No gun I fire covers the whole frontal cone of walkers and stuff that get into melee range backed up by a crusher or some other nonsense. But power sword swings were necessary for horde management because fully automatic weapons donât always kill each mob in one bullet. Get hit a couple times with melee you get chunked. Melee weapons give you more dodge too that was required to survive all kinds of situations in auric.
9 Likes
Why do you assume this was the intended purpose of the change?
It seems pretty obvious that it was targetting the fact that for many weapons you barely ever had to even think about ammo. This wasnât an internal Veteran change, it was a game-wide economy change.
Yes, the Vet +5% damage on all attacks to all targets aura is in no way comparable to the Psyker +7.5% damage to only elites aura, or the Ogrynâs +10% damage only on heavy melee hits. Lose the victim mentality.
3 Likes
Yet somehow players complete damnation+ aurics runs, no problems. This has been happening before and after the nerf, with or without any (survivalist) vets in strike teams. What gives?
This reminds me of the power sword ânerfâ hysteria. Could be that some ammo hungry individuals might actually have to prioritise their targets? I would love to see that.
5 Likes
Two ways it can swing here.
Veterans yes will stop wasting ammo on trash mobs and go melee more. But they are more squishy in melee range.
Or negatively, they just leave trash mobs to others to go ammo hunting instead.
People will just exit and remakematch more if they see others running ammo hungry guns. Canât even switch class to more melee focus within same mission lobby to balance.
1 Like
Honestly, I think the way resupplying in missions needs to be looked at. Running to every corner of the map to pick stuff up (which is worse now, thanks to the ammo regen change) is pretty bad for the flow of the average run.
1 Like
The truth is too many players are at the auric-maelstrom right now. Difficulty curve is dumb in DT.
Itâs like 60% of players should play Heresy 30% Damnation, and 10% hardcore basement dwellers should play auric-maelstrom. But right now it feels 80% of playerbase is on auric.
FS should rescale difficulties and resources/rewards then come out and say âwe are expecting for majority of our playerbase to feel comfortable on X difficulty tier, this Y difficulty is a tutorial one, and that Z one is for nolifersâ
1 Like
While I agree that it should be spread out more evenly, keep in mind that the only people left playing are hardcore players that are addicted to the gameplay loop. You had the same issue in Vermintide 2 with easier difficulties being dead and legend/cata lobbies always getting full.
If FS had even 1% of Arrowhead Studios competence in terms of content delivery, bug fixing and general communication, weâd have much more players and things would be spread out more evenly.
I still want a difficulty above Damnation though, especially for Auric.
3 Likes
I donât think it would be good, cause amount of ammo you get form a pack will depend on vet. Means vet needs to escort every player to supplies. And also means players canât go loner to collect the supplies.
Looting is a part of the game, thatâs why there are some small rooms and side places. Without that run time decreases and feels more like a rail shooter.
As i mentioned several times on this forum - having universal ammo type is a big problem. Even if you will remove Survivalist, rescale how much ammo different guns recieve from the ammo packs you will have a situation where some greedy ogryn is grabbing all ammo for his rubmler, cause he recieves only +1 ammo or something.
Game needs some dynamic ammo system where you open yellow box and it spawns ammo type according to what players are using - so if there are rumbler, plasma, flamethrower the game will spawn explossive and fuel.
1 Like
On what is this assumption based? My dad is barely comfortable at malice so I play uprising and malice with him and heresy with my wife - there arenât any noticeable difficulties finding players at these tiers.
So why do you think everyone is playing auric maelstrom?