hello. I’ve been playing this game for a while and I love 1h weapons the most but ever since I moved on from legend the cata I realized they’re not only the most viable options they sometimes outright make you a liability to your team. So I’m forced to move to other options for Kerillian and Kruber since people are outright kicks you if they see you try to use 1h sword or just plain mock you. I think it would be awesome if all of the weapons are somewhat Cataclysm viable. I think players should be able to enjoy their preffered weapons and I’m sure there are ways to make them viable even in cata without making them op.
1h swords are pretty good on Cataclysm tbh. If people are kicking you for bringing them it means they are terribly clueless and insecure. Keri’s version of the weapon has a bit more of a learning curve to it, but I’d say that for Kruber and Sienna (pyromancer specifically) they are excellent choices. Easy to use and very effective.
cataclysm is supposed to be the mode when you want to sweat and prove yourself that your capable of overcoming the difficulty gap, every weapon is balanced around legend because cata needs those very specific builds that are powerful enough in different aspects.
to paint a more visually sensical picture let me put it this way:
in competitive sports, lets say sprint, aputees are alowed to participate, do they get any headstart? no! and they certainly wouldnt want to. that would rob them of the archievment the fact that with all odds stacked against them they managed to overcome this very reality.
sure you might say but vermintide is just a game, sure
but i would argue that the players that love cata the most wouldnt want buffs to all weaker weapons, and much rather have nerfs to the overperforming weapons, why? because cata is supposed to be the sweaty mode you play only for your ego and not loot…
and to “1 handed sword is bad in cata” i can only say that sure its offensively weak but its a S tier option for huntsman due to it having defensive options other dont have.
they’re all good points but I still think players shouldn’t be punished if they chose to use a different. in other words difficulty should be the one punishing me not my weapon of choice imo. I should die if I cant dodge dance around a horde or cant block in time or something else no one should die because they chose to play with a different (unmeta if you will) weapon.
your statement doesnt make much sense, since all these things like dodge count & lengh , block speed & instant block animation cancel or pushing strengh are directly tied to the weapon and huge part why weapons feel the way they are.
so if you fail to dodge far enough or run out of dogdges, fail to block fast enough, your weapon is already partly responsible for that,
Here are my thoughts on some of these weapons:
The problem with Kruber’s 1h Sword is it’s an unsafe weapon when under pressure. When I say unsafe, I don’t mean in a purely defensive way. It’s fine in that regard, but it’s poor for dealing some damage safely.
Let’s take a look at a safe and strong weapon, the Tuskgor Spear. The T.Spear is good not because it does a lot of damage (it doesn’t), but because it’s decently mobile, has access to safe chip damage (light 1), decent stagger strength for making room to land heavies and a good amount of stamina. This lets it take on multiple threats at once. This means if you have a few enemies in front of you that you can’t cleave, it’s still able to deal some damage, while the 1h Sword relies on crits or light spam. The 1h Sword Kruber and Sienna share is very bad for this, but Sienna makes up for it with staffs and Pyro.
The 1h Sword works well on FK (Foot Knight) because of FK’s attack speed and charge synergising with it. Its thp efficiency is also insane on FK. It’s very underwhelming on the other Krubers. If M&S (Mace & Sword) gets nerfed it might have a place on Grail Knight.
Kruber’s 1h Sword’s movement curve is less than the Greatsword’s at just 10% attack speed. It only has 3 dodges, which is odd. It deals with shields relatively poorly, strangely the overhead does not lower the guard of shielded Marauders.
It’s only defensive gain over M&S is 5% dodge range and 1 stamina shield. It otherwise has a much lower movement curve and less temporary health generation with Stagger thp because of M&S’s first 2 lights being far more efficient than the 1h Sword’s heavies. For reference it takes the 1h Sword 2.21s to do two heavies which have 8.95 damage cleave and 23.88 stagger cleave with the Tank mass modifier. M&S light 1 > light 2 takes only 1.07s (less than half the time it takes for the 1h Sword) and these mace lights have 5.97 damage cleave and 17.91 stagger cleave (no Tank mass modifier). That means M&S is already cleaving enough enemies to generate good stagger thp, with the 1h Sword only wininng out on hyper density when it’s not being stopped by a shield or an elite, which means when fighting a pure horde, which is when it doesn’t matter what weapon is brought. This isn’t a dps comparison, which is important because the dps of M&S is what is making it overtuned/op/meta right now, not its mobility, so the comparison is valid.
Another good comparison is to Dual Swords. These are much better under pressure because as a horde clearing weapon, they still help the team with horde clearing even when elites are in the way, because of its armour sliding heavies.
It has good dps vs hordes without elites/shields dps but that’s it. Its raw monster dps is decent but ineffective if you have aggro with some monsters because its damage is loaded into Light 3 (overhead) which is hard to land against the Chaos Spawn, Rat Ogre and Mino.
The heavies are quite poor. Try fighting 3-4 SV with this weapon. You’ll often just have to spam light attacks. What’s important here is less so the balance of that but how boring that is.
Not sure if the Falchion comes under this category for this conversation, but in case it does, it’s good imo. Push attack might be a little slow feeling, but it works well on all of Saltz careers, with it only being limited by a lack of thp on cleave on BH, which is not a fault of the weapon. A similar argument can be made for Huntsmen lacking thp on cleave, which would be better for the 1h Sword than stagger thp in 90% of cases.
Kerillian’s 1h Sword is statistically strong but kind of balanced in a boring way atm imo. Its bodyshot dps is weirdly high with heavies for a sword. The heavies are all too similar which makes it a lot of the attack patterns feel kind of meaningless. Lacks reach and the push attack is slightly slow at 0.43s for a defensive weapon (Kerillian’s Spear’s push attack takes 0.45s, 1h Axe takes 0.4s).
I meant that as in I should die if I make a mistake.
Keri’s 1h sword heavy uppercut should be changed to have the Bret H1/2 profile so it can still do some armour damage but also be used for horde clearing and combo-ing with L2. Reach of the weapon in general should also be increased, it feels weirdly short.
Kruber/Sienna’s 1h I’m not super sure on what to do for it. 4 dodges would be swell, the heavies probably need a profile change as well but I’m not sure what would fit best.
1h sword on Krub is underwhelming. 1h sword on Handmaiden, Shade and Pyro though, feels pretty decent.
I enjoy 1h sword on Huntsman, Longbow/Handgun covers some of the weaknesses.
The weapon suffers tremendously against super armour.
Changing light 3 (Overhead) to the same damage profile as Elf 1hsword & Falchion overheads could ease that a little. Currently we’re talking 12 headshot overheads/heavy sweeps to kill a CW.
yeah you can make a “1 hour later” video with that one where you show case a poor Kruber trying to kill a CW I wish its heavy attack 1 would do similar to Kerillians.
Eh, that’s not really true. You make it out like Cataclysm is this incredibly more difficult uber-tier mode, when in reality you can play it pretty casually with every build really. Obviously depends on player skill. And if every weapon is balanced around Legend, then damn, Legend is pretty easy.
I mean to be fair, in cata a squishy career dies in literally 2 bad hits from mook type enemies, it isnt easy at all unless you´ve the skill to avoid that thing. Takes a lot of various skills combined to get the mix that lets you not eat hits against dense waves.
And even as a long timer i still struggle like heck against mixed goat hordes with some weapons or early into the wastes.
A marauder can 2shot you in Legend as well if you’re on a 100 hp career and don’t run +20% health or barkskin, so I don’t think it’s the damage increase itself that is so dramatic. Wastes are very different from the “normal” game though. The start is a lot more difficult given the low power and lack of properties/traits or boons. But if you get a good build going you can trivialize them half-way through or earlier. On the topic of eating hits, the baleful empathy curse is kinda eye-opening when it comes to understanding just how much damage some people can take from a handful of rats.
Anyhow, I’d say I appreciate 1h swords even more in expeditions. I find the mobility to be quite helpful at the start.
I’ve no real comment regarding the rest of the issue, as I struggle with most of Cata regardless of weapons lol. [ Although I’ve seen a true solo with Kerillian’s 1h sword ]
That’s an issue with those players, not the game imo.
- Open steam overlay
- Click “recent players”
- Find player that was toxic
- click “profile”
- top right click drop down
- click “block all communication”
My understanding is that this prevents you from being grouped with them in the future.
comparetively it is, the gap between cata and legend is bigger than the gap between all other difficulties (ofc not jumping difficulties) if you massure run failure rate, enemy dmg (but really the amount of hits a player needs to go down) and spawn rates of enemys, it is a significant greater increase compareatively to the jump from veteran to champion for example, and since legend used to be the highest difficulty it is the goldstandard difficulty where weapons are supposed to balanced around and it shows, pretty much any weapon is more than viable regardless of career or talent set.
“This game is easy bruh, i eat true solo cata 3 deathwish onslaught twitch mode on breakfast. Git gud lol.”
Here i made translation.
To get back to the topic which is 1h sword, I believe Krub’s 1h sword at least needs some tweaks. I think the main issue of it is it’s lack of armor dmg, especially when used against CWs.
I suggest Krub’s 1h sword to have 3rd heavy attack, which would be a vertical strike that has decent armor dmg. While it’s 3rd heavy, it would also be performed when you push-attack to heavy, and pressing light attack after 3rd heavy would trigger 3rd light attack which is another vertical. Yes, similar to Bretonnian Sword, though heavy after 3rd light would be 1st heavy, so that it wouldn’t have too much armor dmg.
Just some thoughts I’ve been having.
Well getting kicked from group because 1H sword probably means you did not want to play with those guys anyways.
When it comes to the viability, myeah swords could probably use some small tweaks to make them bit more enticing but even now they are not totally trash in capable hands.
I think 1h swords could use some moveset changes, cause damn is the weapon dull to use. It’s pretty average in viability, but it’s all just the same, all slash, no stab, no cool combos or overhead swings. Little intricacy.