10 things, that kill melee combat on Legend

Use regular attacks. The 3rd attack deals a lot of damage to armor, is performed downward, so it’s really easy to hit the head, and the previous 2 attacks have a very nice stagger.

Idk what you’re talking about, the mace is her best weapon. You can kill armored targets, you do crazy single target dps with regular or charged attack + block combo. You can deal with a wave with a push combo or charged attack spam. Almost as good as a regular mace or 1h hammer.

Its main problem is the range.

Also Kerillian longsword is one of the best weapons in the game. You just gotta spend about 50 hours using it, to get used to the attack pattern. As soon as you master it, you can even headshot-kill stormvermin with regular attacks for fun 24/7.

Well’ I’ve searched through the forum, and I didn’t find anyone saying that they were trash. But they’re definitely weaker than other classes melee weapon. Her mace has a slower attack speed than a regular mace. Her dagger has slower attack speed, worse pattern and lower dps, since it doesn’t apply dots on regular attacks, than Kerillians’. Her Flaming Sword, imho, is the second weakest melee weapon in the game, being outperformed even by her other weapons. Her regular sword… well, its the same as Krubers’, but it’s just not a very strong weapon by itself.

Totally agree.

Stacking elites is being last man standing is 100% a parties fault. The balance should not revolve around such things. But elites do tend to group up a lot of times or are brought to you by a wave, and that might become a problem.

?
Never said it was a bad weapon. The mace is a great weapon. I use it all the time. ? Wtf :smiley:

It sounded like her mace should only be brought to deal with armored foes.

Lag hits are worst, when paesant rat hit you from 10 meters with kitchen knife. Top 1 lag hit victim is WHC, since only 100hp, class is designed to not take hit at all. Died alot because reason above.

I agreed with you on a fair few points, when you actually made points that weren’t just about subjective ideas of fun/you not knowing how to handle certain things. Your idea of what is “fun” difficulty and “bad” difficulty are just subjective. If you really cannot handle the attack patterns of Stormvermin, that’s not a flaw in the game.

You say enemies can hit you even if you dodge? Don’t dodge backwards when they lunge. Dodge sideways once they’re locked into the animation. This will work 100% of the time, barring lag (which we all know does happen and sucks, but that’s going to exist not simply because of P2P but because of the internet itself). Stormvermin are not unstoppable death machines, and even with low-stagger weapons you can easily dance around their attacks (which are very telegraphed and slow) and win. They ARE supposed to be threatening, however. And sometimes you get boxed in and taken down. Even multiple halberd-wielding Stormvermin at once are highly challenging but entirely fair. With Shieldvermin, I’d agree that their defensive abilities are over-tuned right now (weren’t they supposed to be vulnerable when they attacked?)

What is to be done here without making the game less fun for those who enjoy the challenge, and for whom this game is rather clearly aimed at?

And no, my PC isn’t very powerful (GTX 950 and AMD FX8350), I just play with mostly low settings and get a pretty consistent 60~ frames per second. I have noticed that attack speed dips with frame dips, though, now that I think about it.

Anyway, don’t use strawman attacks on people who disagree with your subjective views to make yourself a victim. Actually use arguments.

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Dagger… slow…? I’ve killed entire hordes with nothing but the dagger just for fun because the weapon is so agile :S As for dots why should it apply a dot on every attack? That’d just be weird. The first charge attack applies a very broad range dot on a range larger than just a melee sweep, like a minor spell. The same goes for the flamesword. That’s honestly enough, as it applies some crowd control as well.

The mace is slow but it’s not a one-handed mace… it’s a proper mace with heft to it, and with block-cancelling you can stunlock elites with headshots more often than not if you time it correctly, blocking and dodging where you cannot. Push-stab + swing + swing is also one of the faster rotations to start an attack rotation for this weapon. But it is NOT for wild swinging and it is not a horde-control weapon.

It still has horde control however. If you Swing + charge + charge + charge, etc (any charge after a normal swing is a wide sweep) then you have plenty of crowd management in my opinion. Your choice of staff should preferably fill in any gaps left by your melee weapon.

It’s not them grouping that’s an issue, it’s their frames stacking up into each other that’s absurd. They stand INSIDE of each other. It’d be fine with more regular mobs but come on give these guys some solidity to each other if you’re going to make them solid to the player. D: I vastly prefered the slot system in VT1.

Edit: Also she was never meant to be a full melee character, you have to play mixed combat with her. Fight a few mobs off, fireball or shotgun larger groups of enemies if they get too close, switch back to melee and fight down some singular mobs etc. Swap to staff again to snipe specials etc. I don’t get why people want to play her as a full melee so badly, she’s a WIZARD harry!

Alternatively learn to dodge diagonally backwards when kiting away. Sideways is good if it’s a singular mob and you want to get behind their guard to take advantage of any openings. But you’re pretty spot on in that you want to weave a lot of the time instead of just dragging the charged attacks after you which only makes mobs stickier by not breaking their attackpatterns.

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Again, you assume I can’t handle something, though I never said that.

I never said anything about lunge, didn’t I? Wanna know why? Because I wan’t talking about it. I am talking about situation, where you swipe your 2h sword left and right and a pink rat comes and hits your from where you can’t reach it.

Yes, I indeed can. But why should I do that, when I can pick a staggering weapon and kill them without any effort? And suddenly somehow they’re not challenging or tough at all.

Do not tell people to learn to play.

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You seem to be getting very upset here.

You also aren’t being very clear; but the plain fact is, if you are getting hit by rats despite dodging, then you are dodging the wrong way or there is lag. This is a gameplay problem on your part, not a bug or design flaw. If that’s not fun, that’s only your particular view on it.

It sounds like you need to joust more with the two-handed sword. They were buffed as I recall, but still probably need some more improvements. That’s a balance issue with weapons separate from the other subjective issues you brought up.

I agree - I have agreed in every post - that there are some balance issues with regards to weapons and a few enemies (not pink rats who are entirely fair), like Shieldvermin. It’s good to bring them up; it’s not good to bring up subjective issues or issues that are user input error rather than a bug or design error.

I don’t mean to tell you HOW you must play. Only suggest how you can play better. Or if you’re too angry to listen to me, listen to Nova, they had some good tips, too.

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What I really hate about melee combat, that light attack head shot really doing nothing to enemies, even on champion. You will be hitting this SV with any nonAA weapon until it crit two times at least. Even marauders and fanatics pretty resistant to them. What head shot mechanics are for? Only charged strikes? Only for weapons that do charged strikes from top to bottom of the screen? Only for beam staff? SV not only helmets, but also spine and skull full metal confirmed.

0,5-2 dmg on nonAA weapons to armored head. Thats a joke.

Dedicated servers is a must. Right now the game is biased towards the host. P2P is a lag fest.

I am trying to talk to you about game problems, you’re trying to talk about my playstile or to teach me how to play this game in every post. What’s your problem. I never said a thing about how I play, what makes me struggle or anything about dodges. The only thing I said, that I prefer good weapons to bad ones. Yet time after time you come here and try to teach me. I never asked you about any suggestions, thank you (actually not). Please can we talk about game problems, not how cool yuu are or how bad I am?

You need to realize no one is here on some secret agenda to tell you that you are a bad player. What @BizarreSalp is saying is very correct, namely

Which is true for many of your other points, not just stormvermin. Your criticism of the game simply falls short because it quickly becomes obvious the problem is in how you deal with said situations. If you take the time to read my admittedly long post (unfortunately made as a reply to @Nova, which was my mistake), I guarantee the information there is on point, is easily applied and very effective when applied. You should not be getting hit by SVs or Monks. You simply shouldn’t. And once you understand their mechanics, they become trivial in and of themselves. If someone is getting consistently hit by elites, then something is very wrong. Once you learnt their attack flow, the question then becomes how to deal with them when combined with the plethora of other enemies.

Taken in isolation, no enemy in V2 is dangerous. Imo, any good player can solo absolutely any boss or a group of SVs or CWs. it might take some time, but there you go. Taking damage means you made a mistake, simple as that. And of course that happens to anyone as the longer the fight drags out, the more chances there are to make one. I’m not saying this to brag or to bring you down I couldn’t care less about hurting or not hurting someone’s feelings on a gaming forum and it does absolutely nothing for my ego.

But your attitude is in fact bizarre because you say

But in fact your whole original post is effectively you saying exactly that you are having trouble handling different situations, like

or

These are not caused by problems or bugs in the game, even if you present them as such. I urge you to read my long post and apply what I’ve told you. If you’ve decided you hate me for whatever reason, then go watch Jsat’s education videos on youtube/twitch and learn the exact same things but in video format and as told by one of the best players to have played Vermintide. Because I didn’t just come up with all that stuff on my own, nor did I write it to tell you how good I am or how bad you are. I couldn’t care less about that, believe me. I learned all the info in my post from players like Jsat. You should too. Once you reach your personal skill ceiling, then that becomes the only way to move forward. It was exactly the same for me.

Edit: And if you’re not referring to yourself when talking about those problems, then who are you referring to? Bad players? But then the whole thread becomes pointless, right? So, yeah.

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This, read your opponent before opening yourself up to be attacked by mindlessly flailing. So often do I see people trying to hit berserkers/monks in the face only to get slashed to death in a split second. More often than not you can get off one pre-emptive charge attack before blocking, dodging and finishing them off. Same generally goes for SV’s but you want to play defensive around elites, they’re elite for a reason.

They’re berserkers, you kill them as you kite them. I’ve gone down to them a few times when I first started playing but after that I quickly realized they’re easier than they look since they mindlessly charge after you and never block or weave. Remember those images of the big kid holding back the little kid as they flail their fists up at them? That’s all you gotta do. Keep them at arms length, dodge a bit and smack em down easy. Getting focused? Block, ping, let your allies deal with them. Always courtesy ping them for your allies.

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If I was talking about myself, I would be using “me” or “I” pronoun. Or “us”, if I was a king. Not “you”, lol.

Things that kill melee combat on legend :clipboard: :

  • Elf-things :elf:
  • Greedy ranged killhoggers (looking at you drakefire pistol spammers)
  • People who dont watch their surroundings :woman_facepalming:

(dont be too-too angry skub-meats its just a fun-fun :skaven: )

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k, you persuaded me, and I finally took some tome to respond to your posts.

First of all, I don’t hate you. Why would I? I even barely talked to you. Besides, you talk about tactics in general, not about mine performance, unlike @BizarreSalp. I didn’t want to answer your post, because you’re making a very basic mistake, despite the fact that most things you say is right.

The thing is, I am talking about game difficulties and how unfair they are. I am not talking about any solutions to overcome those difficulties. I play legend, and I do finish my runs. Shocker. And if I didn’t know how to overcome even half of listed things, I wouldn’t be able to.

But writing down those solutions is not a point of my post in any way. I am sure there is plenty of guides on the internet already. But this post is not a guide.

Also I should say, that I like a lot of aspects of difficulty increase of 1.0.5. But since the difficulty was increased overall, some aspects, imho, have become unfairly hard. But there is a lot of things, that need fixing since beta. Actually, THERE IS ONLY 3 paragraphs, related exclusively to Legendary difficulty and 1.0.5 patch. 3, Carl. 7 others are universal! (2, 5 and 6).

Now let me get to the details

No, I was talking about this:

Yet again, I said nothing about CW. My biggest concern in this situation is a swarm, especially chaos swarm, since there is a lot of raiders. The second you stop hitting them, they get out of stagger and take a quarter of your HP. Unless your using a high stagger weapon, but that’s another story.
Another problem is monks. Since they’re stagger immune, they can fall on your head and INSTANTLY shred you to pieces, before you even have a chance to react.

Agreed, reaggroing should take some time and players should be aware of that.

I am not concerned about elites stagger time, except for monks. 1.00 was indeed a joke, since you could stagger Maulers 24/7

Do you realize, that you support my point of view this way? That’s what I am trying to say: 1 monk is a bearable threat, 2 monks - u’re almost guaranteed to take damage and you better leave them for your teammates, 3 monks - block and prey. They’re tougher than CW, that’s my problem with them.

I know all that stuff, thank you. The problem is often times… no, very often times these shieldbearers come at moments, where you physically have no time to deal with them. By themselves they’re not very tough, but when they come with a mob, or when they protect some tougher foe, they’re the worst enemies possible.

Now you’re looking down on me. Rude.

Why? What’s your reasoning? What’s the downside?

I am not talking about weapons, I am talking about situations where your controls do not work. They work perfectly fine in keep, but as soon as you’re on the field, everything falls apart, especially during waves. And that’s not my wooden PC, that’s a problem that I’ve been told about by my friends and other people I play.

So I was wrong in the beginning, and you did try teach my how to play. Damn. Thanks so much (no), but yet again,

And my post isn’t about workarounds. It’s about problems, that need to be workarounded (workarounded, lol).

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Don’t mean to barge in if it’s personal.

Footwork. Losing health to hordes is wrong. May be playing too aggressive for career/build.

Berzerkers are elites. It hasn’t been stated that they should be weaker than other elites.
They ARE the most vulnerable elites.

I rather take out ambience before they have the opportunity to reach critical mass. However, shieldvermin are the most vulnerable to kiting. They also provide zero threat by themselves, just don’t get cornered and it’s completely fine.

Uses stamina. Isn’t a 100% solution, specially if you don’t know what you can/can’t push.

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Or maybe I am trying to use a non-meta weapon, because that’s what I said?!

Weak, right :smile:. Compare this and this.

The new SV are why I run +30% or just over for a breakpoint against them. The halberd will then be able to stagger them with a push overhead body shot, even out of their own overhead.

EDIT: Looks like ~17% for overhead stagger, but going much higher may allow push stagger

Can overhead twice in a row by tapping attack at the right time just after the push overhead, and can dodge and change targets in between

I like to be able to solo, and this let’s you do something against SV groups and patrols

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