Been playing Helldivers 2 recently and

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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And I am pretty damn glad I have. It’s nice to play a game that rewards players for playing the game. I have also noticed that the DT population has tanked since it’s release.

Okay, it has some new game issues, just like Darktide when it was first released, but it is still a great fun co-op game that can get insanely tense, but when you do it, you are feeled wityh a sense of accomplishment and well done guys.

Darktide just doesn’t achieve this, it punishes you with is BS rng weapon generation and feat and blessing garbage. It just doesn’t reward you at all, it just insults you.

The balancing of the game is atrocious. How on earth is a gun build for the psyker the best build? A psykers best build should be based around psyionics, but it is not. A friend of mine was using a mod that shows damage done and a psker with a Columbus 5 out did another Psyker by 300k damage on damnation, and it wasn’t down to a bad build either, it weas down to the fact that all the psyker staffs, brainrupture all take so long to generate an attack, that weapons have usually cleared the field before the psykic attack is released. Then when it is released it is so underpowered for the time it has taken to charge.

Soulblaze is the same, it’s a lovely idea, but the damage takes so long to build up and all the spread is so pathetically weak with a tiny radius it does almost nothing as once again, any other team with a weapon will generally wipe out a horde before the soulblaze gets to do anything. It’s more of an asthetic than an attack… Oh isn’t that pretty all that white flame.

The only thing a psyker has of any use is a psykic shield, but then once again, best use with warp charges for quicker recharges, you are at the mercy of being able to generate charges and killing specials etc… as long as the other players with ranged weapons haven’t wiped them out, because you have waited an age to charge your attack. Even with blessings that increase you charge rate it barely helps.

Watching players with tiny little knives do way more damage that a fully charged psykic attack…

It is simply an appaulling balanced game that goes out of it’s way to punish you playing the game, it cost 1.6 million credits to finally get a gun that was semi-usuable for my veteran and I am still not happy with it as I can’t pick the blessings and perks I want.

I really want this game to be great, but it’s not, what this game highlights is everything wrong with gaming to today. Using nasty, synical ploys to keep playing, rather than relying on the game being great itself, with an over priced aggressive synical shop to waste your money on.

I mean. where are all the various coloured backpacks for the red outfits etc that you can get with credits? Nope only get two that don’t fit with a fraction of the outfits you get.

The list just goes on and on with this game… And it’s sad, it could have been so much more than it is…

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I have 5 builds on my psyker. 4 of them is staff oriented. best builds for me - purgatus + bb + howl (because i can melt ANY threat on the map and i can NUKE monstrosities).

Gun psyker is just not flexible. Yes u can melt enemies but what can u do when ammo is low and enemies come and come?

I have all 4 classes MAXED OUT (not only level - gear too) and all classes are really playable on auric missions. Psyker is my main and i think only problem i see - is lack of psy weapon.

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Aye, I don’t think Fatshark really thought through this concept well.

What we got is basically a critmonster. Sure, a Gunpsyker can get some really high DPS, but it’s really not doing anything a well built Veteran can’t, is taking ammo consumables they otherwise wouldn’t with a Stave, and isn’t bringing anything reduce their logistical footprint/burden (e.g. Survivalist/Always Prepared/Field Improvisation/etc). If they’d gone more the Gun-fu route, and maybe done something like apply the Assail functionality (where projectiles guide themselves/follow the user’s direction and don’t need precise aiming, can penetrate multiple targets, etc) to guns and brought unique functionality and utility, there’d be a lot more utility to the that build.

That said, I largely use a Voidstrike staff, with Transfer Perils and Warp Flurry, on my Psyker, along with Assail and a force sword with Deflection. This doesn’t put out the greatest damage, but it does mow muppets fantastically well and allow precision (if slow) engagement of targets at any range, and with ample targets and headshots can basically shoot forever. I keep a constant stream of damage that doesn’t use consumables and can spike-dump damage with Assail when necessary, reducing logistical strain on teammates and better allowing teammates to concentrate on dealing with specialists and high priority targets.

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Another day, another Helldivers 2 thread.

That said, the main complaint here is the crafting system, which true, it could be a lot better.
@brosgw Another one.

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Idk have builds for all staffs and a gunpsyker.
All are fine on auric/malestrom.
Gunpsyker is great DPS but a bit dependent on you having a ammo-spewing vet on your team otherwise you probably better off not hoarding ammo from others.
Only one I dont like is the flame one but some ppl like it so maybe just not my taste.

The RNG, crafting and lack of endgame is sadly a blight on the game.
The fact that once you get all good weapons on all characters the mats becomes pointless and melk is really pointless when u get all your blessings.
What I’m gonna do with 10000k+ melkbucks

Good that you playing HD2 it’s a fun game with fun progression (might be a bit bias, a friend works on that game)

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What’s funny to me is like having a competitor wasn’t enough, so they introduced more bugs with previous patch. Fatshark timing.

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And?

Just goes to show many people are disappointed with Darktide then doesn’t it.

I mean, if Fatshark solve all the issues with DT and rewarded the player for playing rather than punishing them, then maybe there wouldn’t as many threads slating DT.

It’s not the players fault Fatshark got it wrong.

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So i agree with you that HD 2 has better progression but its balance is way way worse than DT. once you hit 7+ you start to see how awful the balance in HD2 is. There’s like a few viable weapons and one meta build. Meanwhile in DT you can run anythinf effectively. Even your examples of psyker performance are somewhat wrong. Yes gunpsyker is very strong, but there are incredible staff builds and psychic screetch soul blaze can basically instant clear rooms (i believe it still can. Its been a minute for me).

Where helldivers has blown DT out of the water is accessibility, a far less rocky launch, clear top level communication, and most of all: better feeling progression. But where it fails is in depth. DT’s gear system has way more depth and exploration options (if you can pay for it LMAO).

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The thing is, competition is good, it should strive for both companies to make their games better. I would love to play both games and enjoying both.

The problem is, it’s a no brainer (for me at least) that play Helldivers 2 as Darktide just constantly screws you over.

Enemies spawing in front/behind you, spawing out of walls, sound alerts not triggering, poorly balanced, rng BS, not real reward, I haven’t once played with a weapon that has blessings and perks I would like in any class…

With Helldivers 2, you level up, you get new stuff and napalm bugs in the morning, then come out with all sorts of goodies and resources…

With darktide, you you spend all time fighting the RNG…

Games are about having fun and not being a stressful full time job to overcome all the BS.

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HD2 It also has far less rng BS, which is one of the biggest issues.

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Crafting and item progression is awful. It sucks. Hell divers 2 is much better.

But I do agree for balancing… there’s a reason I see pretty much everyone play with railgun, personal shield, and breaker shotgun. And with current bugs all light armor and trail blazer helment since armor doesn’t work properly.

That said, I do think there are issues with balancing in Darktide too, especially around blessings. But for Psyker I use void strike and it serves me quite well, I can get to the top of the leader boards. I also take brain rupture/burst. Mainly for kinetic flayer but I do pull it out when I have the charges where it takes no peril, and has faster charge time on moving targets or at high peril since it gains more damage at high peril too.

Also, added your thread. Even though it’s more about balance but hey. I am a simple man. You say “RNG bad” you’re in.

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Maybe we misunderstood each other.
I said “another one” to brosgw because he manages a thread where he gathers all the feedback about (the lacking) crafting.
By reaching critical numbers of participants we hope to show Fatshark how much of a pain point the current system is and how dire a change is needed.

That said, I don’t agree with your points about balancing. But that’s another matter.

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Darktide’s actual combat is alot more smooth.

In DT - Enemies stagger, pushed back, fall down, get back up. It is visual feedback you’re making impact on them. In HD2, bits fall of enemies, slight stagger, then immediately cease dead. The animations of enemies are quality in DT.

DT gunplay, the reloads, firing, roaring gun sounds and their associated animations.

The melee and higher agility movement of slide, jump, dodge etc. HD2 - No jump, strafe and dive where you’re vulnerable for 2 secs afterwards. HD2 movement is very stiff and limited in dodging for what is a fast paced shooter.

That said. Where the frustration of DT’s crafting leads to HD2’s easier naturnal progression of weapons. There are no perks/blessings for weapons, it just standard issue. I would say 1 week casually playing to unlock them all. Probably 2 weeks to unlock weapons and all support items if playing 2-3hrs a day.

With the fact that HD2 has no crafting, no skill system and means no grind. But then it closes off any sort of optimising and build diversity altogether. Is this what people really want?

But damn the movement is so stiff in HD2, after hitting level 20 I went back to DT and immediately felt yea agile movement and shooting feels much better in DT by a mile.

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Would you like to know more?

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Another day, another triumph for managed democracy

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and even that is a huge understatement.
every gameplay footage of hd2 i’ve seen so far screams “console controls”, mindless fast food third person shooting for the masses.
not an ounce of movement or aiming, situational control or skill ceiling, instead seemingly drunk or stoned dudes giggling at getting teamkilled by stuff dropping on their heads.
reminds me of those shufflers stumbling out of our local soccer arena, giving off that distinct lovecraft/innsmouth vibe.

at 44 years old, i had one of my best gaming experiences(lan tournaments included) yesterday, clutching countless times and managing to see them all through to the end.

out of every skill based games so far, quake unreal doom you name it, darktide gave me that "3am tournament finale 5 cans of energy deep"feeling again for the longest time.
for that i’m ever so grateful and because of such opportunities stick to it no matter what.

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Does that even matter if there is an RNG system in place that is cutting off a significant amount of players from ever experiencing that balance fully?

The thing is, most people dont give a rats ass about most of that. They want to be able to jump into a game and have fun with their friends with minimal friction, theres a reason HD went viral and sold millions over expectation.

Helldivers is happy hour Beer and Chicken Wings.
Darktide is a 5 star wagyu filet cooked to a perfect mid rare, served in mushroom sauce at the Kitchen Manager’s insistence.

I’m allergic to mushrooms.

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So did I, yet I continue playing Darktide. Tide games remain the best worst games I have ever played.

Helldivers remains a fairly medicore horde shooter, the core gameplay isn’t deep enough for me to enjoy for long period of times.

However I 200% agree on the sense of progression. You gather resources, and the game doesn’t rob you when you spend them on something you want. You spend your time in-game, and always get what you pay for. No gotcha crafting, locks, base scores, or a shop which has anti-player RNG written into the code when you obtain grey items etc.

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No.
Which is why i say progression is better in HD2.
Crafting has been driving casuals away from DT for the last year and everyone except fatshark seems to understand that.

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Ready or Not and GTFO are PvE Coop games where all gear is unlocked from beginning.

You choose based on team loadouts to be in synergy and situational to the map you intend to play.

No grind, No crafting etc at all. All access gear from day 1.

Shame these games don’t get higher player count. These two games require so much coordination going discord or with friends is only way as not suited to random match making due to unforgiving nature of these games and communication required. They just left out the casual crowd who want to simply jump in and play with randoms effectively.

But they are great recent examples of where PvE coop can be engaging without needing progression elements at all.

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