It is never a problem. It’s normal especially in pug in “any games.” It happened to me in Blade & Soul, in Lost Ark, in Killing Floor, in V2, and in DarkTide. There is nothing wrong with that.
When a player skill is way above the difficulty, they enjoy helping, carrying, or having new players in the team. Some people are only good enough to play ok in the same difficulty so they feel frustrated when others don’t play well.
There are 4 types of players
1.) Skill above the difficulty and enjoy helping.
2.) Skill below the difficulty and still enjoy helping and understand the true nature of pug. These players usually get better and will become like the first one.
3.) Skill below or just enough to enter the difficulty and dislike helping. They usually don’t get any better or take forever to get better. Because, unlike the first 2 types, their mindset isn’t like “how do I play differently in this situation that we just wiped?”.
4.) Skill above the difficulty but still complain. This one is random. We have this moment when we get frustrated for whatever reason. Type 1 and 2 can become 4 for a short time depending on the day but it’s not often at all.
Sometime you just gotta let go resonating with some comments.
From imbalanced Zealot + Knife combo the thead has gone down to “you must carry in PvE games or you’re bad” and further ego stroking.
Speaking of carrying in PvE games, I remember playing KF1 on Hell of Earth back in the days, then some severely underleveled and underperfoming fella joined and kept dying every wave. When we asked him why did he join Hell on Earth, he replied with something like “I only play on the hardest difficulty”. It became a local meme afterwards. 10~ years ago this behavior was laughed at, now you’re getting laughed at when you bring this up.
This pretty much shows how much the overall gaming community has detiorated. And considering that we have entered an era where literal bugs are being defended and players are blamed for not playing around them or just complaining, this kind of ego-padding contrarian behavior where people go through all kind of crazy mental gymnastics to find a problem in you just seems moderate, compared to the horrors I see on the internet nowadays lol
The fundamental differences of opinions seems to hinge on the following points:
Some see the rushing being overly enabled by knife+zealot and want to see it toned down to discourage rushing, whereas others don’t want to nerf the combo since it also has legitimate uses and provides a unique play style (in a non-rushing manner).
Some don’t feel the frequency of rushing is particularly high, whereas others see it too frequently.
Some feel that the existence of rushing is inherently detrimental to the teamwork oriented gameplay. Others are willing tolerate it, and even see its possibility as adding a wild card to the gameplay dynamic.
These points of course are interrelated. How frequent is too frequent? Is it frequent enough to justify nerfing the combo and thus opportunity. Will nerfing the combo actually prevent rushing or just shift it to the next best option? Etc etc.
Well, that’s why we should focus on zealot and knives.
Is it too strong? if yes, what makes it too strong?
I believe that the knife is not too strong on the veteran or psyker. Just my opinion.
But if we agree on this, then it is not the knife that has to be nerfed, but the zealot build too strong.
About 1st, knife that would be too strong. I tried to provide datas that show that you cannot nerf mobility without nerfing other weapons. Exception is the distance dodge that could, a little, be reduced. Not sure it would change a lot this weapon, except if you go to the point where you would need to nerf all other weapons to keep the balance.
About the 2nd. Swift certainly and also shroudfield movement bonus could be nerfed. I would say divide by 2 the 2 bonus. And if you ask me shroudfield should also see the bonus on backstab damage and finesse damage divided by 2. It would make perfectionist worth to take it, outside of wanting to damage more the monsters.
The last time I had a trolling speedrunner was also the worst time. Stealth veteran, not a zealot. Can’t remember the weapons but it wouldn’t have made a difference.
It’s already been shown that nerfing knife mobility wouldn’t stop with the knife.
Nobody wants to even talk about nerfing stealth.
The problem is human nature. The solution, if there is one, is going to have to be a bit cleverer.
That’s the problem. By itself Knife is OK. It’s the combination of Knife mobility + Zealot mobility + other passives that give him incredible autonomy and being almost untoucheable in the most cases.
The offensive capabilities of a Knife Zealot is usially just mediocre, as was mentioned very early in the thread, a “proper” melee build with CoTW + crits + Heavy Sword/Chainsword/CA/etc will blow Knife Zealot out of the water. But being invincible + having stealth as a free “out-of-jail” card to dump aggro is what attracts rushers with this “solo player mindset”.
I’ve answered this already. BTW got another Knife Zealot yesterday:
I joined very late into the game, it was after the last medstation on Aegis Station mission. We had two Psykers and a Knife Zealot. Right before the bridge we got Chaos Spawn and a horde, while we were dealing with this, Zealot jumped down, ran acrosss the bridge and tried to activate the final objective. Luckily, I was a Zealot too, so we’ve dealt wit this without any problems. I was a Veteran with my usial builds (non-WoC ones), I think we would have suffered a wipe.
On these I honestly don’t find any rushers. There’s too many enemies and it’s not feasible. I see lots of rushers on lower difficulties, people hunting penances or contracts. But I never see rushers, any who live long enough, anyways.
When playing auric missions the spawns are so intense I think you need to be pretty aggressive in advancing as a team as the specials and things spawning behind you just wast away your resources.
I can’t think of a single time I have seen a player rush through an auric damnation mission solo effectively and leaving the rest of the squad behind.
I mean. Is this an example of deleterious rushing? I can’t recall Aegis station well but it sounds close enough. I guess it depends if they felt like you “had it”. Or if you weren’t making progress in awhile. Leaving temporarily to reduce the time you need to stay alive over all and come back could be a good tactical decision.
What I’m seeing regularly is Knife Zealots that isn’t speedrunning the map, but they are basically always 1 area ahead of the team completely alone, so you only see them when you catch up to them at events.
I feel like they are even more common on auric maelstroms than simple auric, and they aren’t dying sadly.
I don’t think I have seen this, but maybe that’s because I try to keep up.
I guess for me if they aren’t dying and they’re killing stuff it seems fine. Seems unnecessarily risky, but if they got the skill to do it and make the area easier for the other 3 when they get to it, by all means I guess.
Especially if they’re picking up crafting mats still.
I don’t know. If they’re an entire room ahead I think they gotta be killing stuff. The invisibility doesn’t even last that long, and if they’re built for it need to attack and get crits to build it back up. And if they’re an entire room ahead, the enemies aggro back onto them when they drop outta stealth.
Well, let’s presume this is the case. The simple solution to me is the aggro should be better based on proximity, and a bias towards the player that originally had the aggro, unless they’ve been recently attacked by another player.
Instead of nerfing/changing the unique play style… Just have the AI better prioritize who to aggro. If you saw someone hit you then turn invisible, and 6 seconds later is behind you, you should chase them, not the people you haven’t seen yet in a whole other room. Just have all the enemies following the “rusher” like a train.