I’ve heard this too but I watched a tester’s stream where he messaged a dev and they seemed to confirm this was a myth. It would be great if someone like @FatsharkStrawHat could confirm if the Loner aura prevented the game director from countering players who lag behind or rush forward.
So, antisocial use of stealth is the problem here.
Basically, I agree with everything in your post but my conclusion is that players don’t need the knife to be antisocial and will just use some other weapon if it gets nerfed.
Speedrunners measure success in speed. It is about efficiency. Challenges are actively avoided, sometimes even to the point of using exploits to bypass doors.
They do this because players who repeatedly engage mobs/hordes at the back, rather than moving on, just attract more enemies in a repeating cycle. That makes the game longer and harder.
Don’t dawdle, ignore trash mobs if you can, keep moving at a walking pace (on average), and the game is much easier to manage.
Knife’s combination of speed capable of running away from any enemy, and incredibly high damage is the enabler of this playstyle or at least keeps the entry level very low. I think there are people with enough skill to do the same with some other weapon, but knife pushes the skill floor much lower. Low enough to this playstyle to be something I regularly see in game.
Of course there are many moving parts to this including Stealth, but I think current implementation of stealth doesn’t warrant a nerf, while Knife is an S+ tier weapon even outside of rushers using it.
Knife does a few things that I think breaks the games balance at a fundamental level, that’s why I think stuff like disabling speed boost on heavies while out of stamina is something paramount to make it a healthy weapon.
This is a total myth… Only patrols spawn, and this is enough rare to not even been noticeable.
Or believe me, with all the games I have run behind, cause of guys that had a meeting in less than 20 minutes, I would have seen it and would lay down on floor a lot more than I usually do.
LMAO it’s not trash mobs. It was literally a huge wave of Ragers and Bulwarks with a specialist train on top.
Again, people giving such obvious advices is a sign that either they still don’t understand what the problem is or try to belittle it as much as possible.
Not to be pedantic, but if it isn’t a skill issue then why does it matter that a zealot is running off and doing their own thing separate from the team?
Pack of ragers in your face? Why can’t you and the other non-rushers deal with them?
I can, at least most of the time. But why should I be in a constant disadvantage with a rusher in the team, and magicaly without this disadvantage without a rusher?
If you read my posts, I don’t try and belittle anyone.
So that leaves me with the former. I don’t understand what the problem is, I guess. I’ve posted my time stats with each avatar, so I’ve been open that I spread time around levels, teams, and characters. I don’t see the same issues that others seem to.
I still feel I’m right with the pinging though. More often than not, it’s just some player who’s become self-absorbed in a tiny fight at the back, while everyone else is waiting on in front.
(*edit) I’ve wondered often about this. I know for sure there’s times a few of us have been waiting in a lift for 1 or 2, then you hear the horde sound, then a load of enemies appear. Then I’ve seen forum comments that hordes don’t spawn behind, then we’ve two opposing views here.
What I can say is that this is not what a lot of players try to enforce as a truth…
Yes, sometimes a big spawn come from behind the group. But the keyword is GROUP.
When you’re alone cause noone has waited you, you can meet sometimes (and this is rare) a patrol. But never, and considering how I play I can testify it, never you will make spawn hordes / waves of crushers etc.
In fact, they tweaked the game, spawns are linked to your progression. So faster you go, more enemies you will get on you.
This is what I’ve read several times, but more than this, this is what I see every run.
I use to loot everything at beginning. There is no danger at all, but still players don’t loot. 20% of the time, I find a medikit or an ammo crate.
When I am in a rushers team, I am in few minutes far away. What I point as rushers are guys that will jump at no return points and never stop even to look 1 second behind. So I am in 2 minutes far away behind. It does not matter, enemies slow them down and I can go back to the group, usually in the 5 minutes.
So I begin the game in grey on the scoreboard, cause when I loot I meet one or two enemies already here… but nothing spawn.
I use also to go for chests that nobody loots. So I meet this situation pretty often. And believe me, I have never met any savage spawn while I was far behind others.
So yes, I maintain, this is a pure myth that rushers claim as true just to justify their behavior.
And to be complete, yes Enforest is right. Rushers don’t pay attention from behind, and sometimes the bigger threat is just behind the group. How many times I have met a crusher patrol + mauler and had to kill them? a lot. Even if the group was close to me when I have seen them (but as always, they had to go forward without even wanting to slow a little).
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t care, I can handle several hordes waves (I sometimes kill all of them while the team try to aggro more enemies), and even crushers… but sure, I would prefer a team work.
And if one player is rushing you still have 2 others to hang with? And it’s not like people rushing aren’t contributing at all. They’re often engaging ranged enemies further out and can take pressure of the rest of the team.
I dunno. In the grander scheme of all of the things to complain about, this to me feels like a minor concern at best. The number of times I see people egregiously rushing away and causing team issues is low (like nearly non-existent) in my experience.
Moreover, nerfing the things that would prevent rushing would also just be undercutting a different play style, and that is the last thing we should be advocating for IMHO.
Ambush/horde spawned right before the security door on top of the slums on the Broadcast mission on Hourglass, they could only come from the bottom/side doors. Our Zealot refused to help, stood in the airlock and spammed pings. If we listened to him and proceeded, then we would have to fight the horde + new enemies after the airlock.
If you think this is fine and it’s an issue on team’s part, then I don’t know what to say.
I’m running into these kind of players very regularly. EU night to late night. Aurics, plus Monstrous Specialist Maelstrom (any type) when it’s available.
Seen that one time or two… and it ended with 2 new names on my block list.
I wish we could see, at least, when we added someone to the list.
I get more rushers than skilled dagger zealot that can avoid the threats. I often retrieve them guarded by bulwarks and prisoner… but usually, they log out once they are on floor.
IDK which one is worse BTW. The bad ones just log when they hit the ground so slot might be filled with someone else, good ones usually lead to another party slot turning into revolving door of new players 90% of the time.
I find it especially bad on I-II and V-E-G, Maelstroms because they aren’t always up and my favorite content getting ruined in this way feels so bad, especially if I bring some fun build instead of a strong one.
He’s not wrong that people rush, but knives aren’t the reason. Most of the random group runs I’ve been playing lately have been marred by people rushing through, skipping past pickups literally right in front of them. Again, it’s not because they were using knives.
The way they designed the game is for people to spend time looking around for lootables and staying together for coherency bonuses. Granted, they do a lot more to break up coherency than to encourage it, but still, most people these days are just running to the end rather than trying to help solve map puzzles or get crafting resources and pickups. A lot of it is actually disincentivized at the moment, considering the pickups feed into the crafting system which is anti-rewarding, but still, it’s very much against the vibe.
There’s a clear difference between that and mindlessly rushing ahead 1-2 rooms ahead, pulling all the crap then dying and bitching about it. I think most of us here can make the distinction between the 2 scenarios, and the latter is far more common among the knife zoomers than the former, they make no effort to be useful and are at best neutral, usually a detriment. Main character and knife go hand-in-hand.
As I’ve said in the past and others here, just removing the move tech speed lunge would go a long way towards curbing the issue some, even if the move speed is replaced with a bit of extra reach to compensate (?).
I’ve posted my time stats with each avatar, so I’ve been open that I spread time around levels, teams, and characters. I don’t see the same issues that others seem to.