WoM Community Poll

I’ll be sure to include that in the future polls :+1:

4 Likes

You got to stop with the dwarf hate, mate.
Admiring our queen and best-door-there-is is a-ok, but remember, the dwarf is the only one with a bath in his quarters. (And the water is always hot, so he’s always either bathing before or after missions, Sienna only complains because she doesn’t have too).
Good poll though :+1:

9 Likes

Well most of my frustrations can be summed up with the in-game bugs be it beastman hordes being absolutely quiet or just being glitchy(hyper density, ignoring stuff) and the fact that some of the talents still don’t seem to work especially the thp ones.
Overall impression currently super neutral. I Was honestly expecting a lot more. Even some of the cooler stuff like minotaur honestly left me wanting more since the boss currently feels really generic.

2 Likes

Mostly, my feelings are quite neutral for now. I haven’t gotten to play enough to get really used to the mechanics changes, but mostly dodging feels just different and requiring more precision (not my strong point, honestly), and the stagger mechanics have largely gone unnoticed for my play.

Beastmen indeed feel different and change the game, but that may be less so when we get used to them - there’s a part of me that thinks they’re just a slightly different Chaos, feeling quite the same at the end of a virtual weapon.

The Talents I generally like (even if I haven’t had time to explore most of it yet), but there are a couple of questionable decisions. There were a couple left unchanged that would, in my thinking, need changing; still a couple of clearly better or worse choices; a couple of uninspired ones (hello, small unconditional bonuses), and a couple of other issues. And of course, feeling somewhat robbed of our progress by locking the final tier and making the game feel grindy for the first time (for me, that is; I recognise others’ complaints about it)

The weaves are pretty much whatever for me. I’ll likely do them at some point, but they don’t have a long-term charm, even with seasonal changes. Luckily for me, the grind at least can be skipped after playing the first one by continuing playing the Adventure maps.

The only weapons I tried out for now have been Kruber’s Spear and Sienna’s Flail; both felt fine. The Spear, in fact, surprised me with how well it worked with Mercenary (HS needs a bit more playstyle adjusting to work well, though, but it isn’t the easiest Career to start with) - and that while it’s very close to the Elf Spear in behaviour, the Career context makes it feel very different. The Fire Flail was… Well, good. It has it’s place, but for now it didn’t feel particularly special. It does somewhat compete with the Crowbill on armour-slaying, which is a good thing.

4 Likes

Thanks a ton for reaching out with this poll!

To elaborate on why I dislike stagger, it really slows down the combat from more of a hack and slash to a grind to kill even hordes of Skaven slaves. HP scaling isn’t an issue, but the tedium of mashing bash to stagger opponents really makes the whole ordeal less fun in champion+ runs.

3 Likes

To comment:
My initial reaction has been negative. Disregarding all individual changes, there were simply so many at once that it is incredibly overwhelming, and these run DEEP. The Better Balance Patch was one thing; this is several levels above that. This doesn’t mean that everything in it is actually bad, but taken all at once, it felt like crap.

I dislike stagger for a multitude of reasons; the mechanics ARE confusing as hell. I just did a test a few hours ago that I posted here and on Reddit, and good god my head was spinning just from that! Let alone having to suss out the proper descriptions for the frickin’ talents, since the official ones on the thread here (and in-game!) are wrong. But beyond that confusing nightmare, it is just a side-grade, the same thing but with extra (non-enjoyable) steps involved. It also broke the balance that we very nearly had. If we removed all the stagger stuff now, with Shields and 2H Hammer having their mobility buffs, then I believe the only “bad” weapons in the game would be the Dual Daggers. As it is, most light weapons are in a very bad state.

I like Beastmen, but they are too dark in coloration.

I dislike the talent changes because, again, they just changed up everything and it’s confusing as hell. These might balance out, and I think we got more “good” ones than before, but we still have bizarre things like the boring “+x% crit”. On top of that, far too many of the new ones are broken. We’re back to Launch days here.

Bizarrely, I actually kinda like how THP is busted right now, call me a masochist. It reminds me of VT1 where getting hit felt actually punishing, and clawing your way back up in health meant playing good for a very long time.

I dislike Weaves because they’re too grindy, they’re scripted, and the color palette make it hard for me to see things on some (like Hysh). They also feel very disconnected from the otherwise gritty world. Crawling through caves, overrun cities, lost holds - that’s one thing. Now we’re in a rainbow world with mutators. The mutators are fine, though; I wish they were just put in with the other mutators we have. I must add the caveat that I do not own the DLC yet, the previous things have just been inflicted on me regardless. But Weaves have not fundamentally changed from the betas/internal, so I feel I can still fairly answer.

I like Throwing Axes and Billhook, but Kerillian’s Spear and Shield blocks too much of the screen. Kruber’s Spear just exists but is pretty boring, and I never actually used Sienna’s burning flail, so I cannot comment on it.

I like Dodge changes fine; I was never a fan of the BBP changes, though I understood they were made for people with lag.

4 Likes

One thing I’m struggling with is pushing.

It’s even more important to push enemies back and create room for yourself in WoM given the changes to dodge and stagger mechanics. But I find that it can be impossible to push without immediately taking a hit in return. It used to be that enemies would follow the same general rhythm in combat but in WoM I’m constantly getting hit by the one enemy that’s a half second out of step with the others.

This is made worse by the fast that pushes in general are weaker (less knockdowns), and the same problem can also happen with dodging.

I really don’t like weaves and how they make all of my current loot obsolete, while forcing me to grind to re-craft the loot and talents I already have. Weaves also split the playerbase because people doing weaves will tend to continue to grind weaves instead of playing normal missions. It also further divides the highest skill players who want to play cata and who want to climb the weave leaderboard. Not being able to play weaves with bots is another big negative, it forces people to quit or fight solo if there is no one queueing. It also complicates matchmaking for weaves because you can only ever find a weave lobby in the keep and then the host might not even pick the weave you want to play.

8 Likes

Polling on this forum is extremely biased. Players who visit this forum tend to be highly agreeable towards whatever Fatshark puts out and reject criticism. If you look at the comments on Steam or ingame the average player isn’t taking the new update too kindly, reviews for the game have also taken a significant hit.

2 Likes

@SmokerT69
Could you make the dislike polls to show votes without voting?
Despite how I might appear sometimes I didn’t dislike everything but am very interested to see the community results.

6 Likes

Poll needs more “neutral” answers. I don’t feel strongly about stagger, the idea is good but the execution is confusing

6 Likes

Overall: Negative

I appreciate the desired change in direction, but this all still needs a ton of work to be where it should be. My core complaints can be summed as follows: we asked for a new difficulty level, we did NOT ask for the existing difficulty levels to get 25-50% harder.

I understand that with changes that play styles need to change too. But I feel like I went from a 90% success rate on full book legend runs to like a 30% success rate WITHOUT books (especially grims). This is going to make getting high level chests and reds even worse than it already was. I’m assuming loot drop rates aren’t increased.

The issue with difficulty is that there are a LOT more things going on that all contribute to an increase in difficulty

  1. Nerf to dodge
  2. Stagger mechanics and increased enemy HP (with maybe broken stagger talents)
  3. Elites mixed into horde waves
  4. Increased spawn rate of specials / disablers
  5. Beastmen general toughness
  6. Weaker temp hit point talents

All of this combines and makes the game more difficult. Not only are the individual combat mechanics (hitting, dodging, staggering) more challenging, but the overall situation (horde control, special, elites, disablers) are ALSO increased in difficulty. This stuff compounds on each other and you just end up in situations where you throw your hands up in frustration.

Stagger: Like the idea

The idea of stagger is great - but between the possibly broken stagger talents or enemy HP values being much higher than the reported 10% increase (per patch notes), something is really off. Stagger as a mechanic is a cool value-add for high stagger weapons, etc. Whatever is feeling broken here needs to be looked at ASAP

Dodge: Like the idea

Dodge was too strong overall, but right now I still feel like I take way too much chip damage (and THP seems nerfed so no ability to mitigate) due to how enemies are stacking.

Beastmen: Overall like but too strong

The beastmen are overtuned however. They feel like they are 50% more difficult to deal with than other hordes. They need less HP or there needs to be less of them.

Temp Hit Points: WTF happened here?

I don’t even know what happened with these. Game was made harder already, and then these got nerfed more?

Weaves: Completely uninterested

Weaves are one of the biggest “swings-and-a-miss” I’ve ever experienced in all my years of gaming. I have 0.0 zero interest in ever bothering with these in their current implementation. I played them in the prior beta a little and they were cool ideas, but the ridiculous grind (which we get to relive each “season”) and the lack of any rewards/crossover between weave and non-weave gear is flabbergasting. I can’t believe how out of touch FS is with the community her.e

Dark Omens Level: Dull

What happened to the level designers at FS? We got the Pitt/Blightreaper as new maps. Then remade old maps (which were fine, but still recycled design work), and then Dark Omens - which is like the most boring, dull, monotonous map design I’ve ever seen. Feels completely inconsistent alongside all the other maps which feature all sorts of interesting set pieces and aesthetic elements.

Conclusion

One can’t help but look at this expansion, and even the development of VT2 over the past year in its entirety, and wonder what is going on. The things that the community has been asking for over and over again since release, are still unaddressed. In no particular order:

  • More maps! Regular injections of new maps will keep people playing
  • More cosmetics! Even better would be a cosmetic shop and a currency or quest system to be able work towards specific cosmetics you want (like you know the quest & contract board in VT1)
  • Improved deed system - the current handling of deeds is dumb. Ideally, deeds get combined with a mutator system and can be integrated into QP allowing people to make all sorts of cool custom game modes (this would be infinitely better than the weave system). If people want to fine-tune difficulty, this is how it should be done.
  • Improved UI and crafting system - how about just rolling all the UI and QoL improvement mods into the base game? Crafting is PAINFUL still. Why?
  • Rework the weapon traits so every build isn’t using the same set of 1-2 traits on a given item.

Basically, the above list boils down to this: fix up and improve Quality of Life aspects of the game, and then just pump out more or what we want: content.

It’s all super frustrating. I love this game in so many ways, but how it has been developed and where the priorities are is utterly confounding.

11 Likes

“smelly dwarf” “queen kerilian” aaaah kerilian mains are at it again. Anyway the poll seems solid, but I feel “Sir Kruber’s” spear is taunting me since Foot Knight CAN’T TAKE THE SPEAR WHY??? Also people like the billhook? It’s just a slower rapier without the free shot honestly. I think it has armor pen but I never noticed it.

Overall : Positive

I have a lot of new options to explore, and it really refresh the game.

I heavily dislike the THP changes because I think it hurts the pace. This is probably not what should be nerfed, as you usually not die because you were low on health but more because you were surrounded, and I really would like to keep it that way.

I do dislike stagger, yeah, but not the mechanic itself, the fact that ennemies are overall more resistant to stagger (option not listed atm). Which cause issues, not to kill them, but to avoid damage when you hit. Fast weapons are now a bit unreliable due to this whereas before, if I hit a small target, it can’t hit me back because he was staggered.

Beastmens, I love them, they really force moving differently, and this is something refreshing. When you’re in contact, it’s actually chaos, but before this, it’s more interesting.
Sometimes though, it’s a bit glitched animation/speed wise.

I like the talent changes, not all of them, but it was needed. I would have liked the shotgun refilling ammo on bashing to not be removed, as it also remove a lot of build options with it. But I can’t always have what I like. I feel there’s still stuff to do.

I like weaves, because, even without randomness, you’ll still have 120 to do. I think it’s less grindy than beta 1 since you now earn aethanor outside the mode, but it’s still “probably” a bit grindy.

I do like all new weapons but have to test more.

3 Likes

Unfortunately, you can not edit polls at all after the first 5 mins. I’ll be sure to make them always visible on the future poll. I didn’t want the current polling to effect peoples decisions.

For sure, I’ll add those in on the next poll. I kind of wanted to know exactly how people feel though. Which do you lean towards more even if you are mostly neutral?

6 Likes

Didn’t vote for weaves and specific because preorders/early access is bad practice, but overall some changes are great some are strange and beastmen still need some fine tuning (its only horde that is dangerous, they are faster both in atk spd and normal speed, hit harder and its harder to see their animation)

2 Likes

Also, if you guys don’t mind. Let me know of any other issues that might need a poll for the end of beta follow up.

2 Likes

Steam review of Vermintide 2 has gone from Mostly Positive to Mixed in ONE DAY. The polling here is, of course, as a result of the most engaged players. We also are much more likely to get to the nuggety-heart of the issues whereas most players will just tell everyone they know the combat sucks and leave.

Hence the reviews.

5 Likes

Despite my complaints, I actually like more than I dislike for this expansion. I currently dislike the weaves as it stands now, but I enjoy a number of other things.

I have mixed feelings on the stagger. They’ve done a better job than the prior beta in explaining it, for sure. It’s still complicated for most players I think. Like, it doesn’t seem to affect ranged weapons so the 7% power talent ends up being better for a player primarily using ranged combat. The stagger talents like Assassin are a little simpler because you either get +20% more damage against a staggered enemy or you get just +40% for headshots or crits or enemies with more than one stagger count. You apply an additional stagger count by simply attacking a staggered enemy. There’s not a whole lot to it. I’d even be up for making a video if the mod for damage numbers of enemies was working. Doesn’t seem to be though.

Beastmen are improving bit by bit with their changes. They’re getting more visible with their designs so they “pop” a bit better on your screen. The glowing eyes in the dark is really nice. I think they could still use a bit more distinction with bestigors and wargors. Those two still blend a bit because they’re so dark.
The banners are complete game enders if you get caught in tunnel portions of maps and players have no means to reach it. I think toning down the effects of the banner a bit would help. On higher difficulties the effects feel so intense that they can seem invincible at times(enemies affected by banner).
The audio for beastmen is just not there. The banner groups and all that is prominent and seems good now audio-wise. The minotaur just does not have much in the way of audio cues at all. In general, the minotaur does a poorer job at telegraphing for players than all the other bosses. Audio changes would probably fix that though. It would help players distinguish the different attacks and make it less silent. Beastmen will sneak up on you so fast because they’re so quiet. You’d think they’d be noisier.

Most talents seem good. Some talents were replaced with worse ones. A good chunk seem like they need adjustments. E.G. Shade got her 30% CDR talent replaced with a 45% CDR talent but the 45% version gives you no bonus damage. Why would I ever want to replace talents and sacrifice that monstrous damage for a mere 15% difference? Just give the old CDR talent back.

I have usually played with THP on kill in the past so THP feels fine for me. A lot of the other ones have never felt great, so I imagine that’s why it doesn’t feel any different to me. I just haven’t changed what I’ve been doing and haven’t played long enough to get around to trying everything.

Weaves. Needed an “all of the above” vote. I currently have no interest in weaves. Portraits are nice. But the grind is not. Like I’ve mentioned before, they have an incredible crafting and weapon aesthetic locked behind weaves. It’s what people wanted but they tease you by putting it behind weaves.

Dodge actually feels better than it ever has. Enemy behavioral changes have undoubtedly helped with that.

Unrelated to the poll choices, I enjoy the challenges brought on by changes. Increased specials, the consistency of difficulty bumps, events being buffed. The new weapons I like. Love new audio lines, as always. It’d just be nice if FS finally fixed some of the things like phantom swinging on dual weapons(SnD, DnD).

6 Likes

That’s just it. I’m still biased in my belief that everything from the ground up was redesigned in service of stagger-damage, so it’s hard to answer. I think the idea is cool, but maybe a little unnecessary. I think completely redoing the game is risky as heck. And I am also wondering what will happen to the state of balance.

Like, we have this very powerful core mechanic, but the stats of enemies were all adjusted accordingly so I don’t actually feel the difference in the hits to kill an enemy. I can’t see the advantage of this system while I am in game. I don’t hate it, but I don’t get it.

4 Likes

Stagger mechanic exist in its own realm.
So, as I understand. There are really 3 options at all.
Assassin for overall dmg boost.
Mainstray for elite killing with heavy weapons.
7% power for whatever ranged purposes you may need it

When it comes to hordes it doesnt really matter if you have to hit target 3.2 or 3.5 times to kill.
I.e. no real breakpoints achieved through stagger talents cause of overall fight inconsistency

  • There are crits and headshot which are not always reliable
  • There are hidden properties on weapons. And those properties not even tied to all of weapon attacks!
  • There are SwiftSlaying procs which may allow you strike during stagger and deal increased damage, or lack of such may lead you to starting from 0 again.
  • There are overstagger states, when target you trying to hit fall down in 20 meters behind others in a horde meatwall and no longer reachable
  • There are teammates hitting same target as you
  • There are bosses which can be staggered only for that long and you cant really deal much damage in that time, unless you have mindcontrol over your teammates, which play around you

Adding to that real lack of possibility to even make something to give visual information, what damage you will deal to the target, is it enough to kill or not, Im ending up swinging at dead bodies for too long sometimes, and dwarf already getting drunk in that time.

This is way far beyond confusing. This is hell of a mess.

3 Likes