Oh SM2 melee combat has issues too, no doubt. But still offers more challenge than DTs melee combat where you just pick the rigth weapon and W+M1 your way trough the map.
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Yeah on average I agree, just wish the difficulty was more on the fun side of the fun<----->frustrating bar.
Like how pistol shots are a zero sum game. Why can I be hit and lose armor while recovering my armor lol.
SM2 is more of a casual game as it is a TPS with many bright stages.
the visuals are good, and if Saber can update the game properly, it will be a game that will be around for a long time.
Darktide has a sophisticated combat system with depth and good replayability. it’s more for hardcore gamers, as the build and crafting allows for a lot of trial and error.
I love both games and plan to play them both for a long time.
???
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your character literally gravitates towards the closest enemy, yea i’m thinking it’s more challenging than darktide !
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He’s not wrong though, parries not giving consistent indicators, horde chip damage being through the roof, and guns not having infinite ammo a la Darktide all make the game harder.
Now if all those systems were working correctly or brought into alignment? Then yes, I would say SM2 is the easier game.
i’m pretty sure melta is bugged currently and you can regain your whole health when you’re slightly chipped so you just can’t die
enemies also don’t follow you past elevators so you can just ignore half the map
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Apologies, I wasn’t aware of the bugs and exploits that let me bypass the gameplay part of my video game.
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Arent the ammo caches in SM2 infinite use? Correct me if im wrong
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they are
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Yeah but sadly my Space Marine is strong enough to lift stone pillars but not strong enough to bring the crates with me.
i’ve seen some highest diff gameplay and people don’t seem to run out of ammo
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In fairness, while there’s certainly points to be made regarding SM2’s combat, between Darktide and SM2 there’s also a huge gulf in power perception that I think is coloring some things there.
Darktide has a pack of four of the least meaningful combatants in the 40k universe, armed largely only with weapons one might find in a basic Guard infantry unit, taking on hundreds or even thousands of enemies up to and including actual Warp entities (such as the Beast of Nurgle) and slaying through them in a matter of 20-40 minutes. In no other 40k portrayal would one expect essentially penal legion troopers to perform to such heights. One could reskin Darktide player teams with Tactical Marine cosmetics, give everyone Bolters, call it “Astartide” and people wouldn’t see that portrayal as being unrepresentative in any way when taken on its own. So in that respect I don’t think there’s anything wrong with something like a Chaos Marine or Tyranid Warrior feeling more resilient in SM2 than an Ogryn in Darktide does, the “zeroes” of each game’s respective power levels are in very different places.
i really don’t get why are people comparing these games honestly
they are both set in 40k and that’s it for similiarities
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Just a bit of hyperbole, all I am saying is I never feel like I run out of ammo in Darktide with liberal gun use, but SM2 feels like I have to be more conservative.
A larger writeup for anyone who cares(source):
I kind of have to say that the more I’ve played this game the less I like the combat. I kind of held off on coming to that opinion to kind of see if a curve kicked in, but I’m about 15 hours now and generally the more I’ve played the more things I’ve noticed frustrating me rather then less. I just have a general feeling that it’s badly tuned in a number of aspects. I’d go as far as to say it could use a overhaul that reworks some core parts of the systems.
I know some of the lower review scores caught allot of flak, but the more I’ve played the more I’ve been coming to to agree with some of the ones that have mentioned issues with the combat systems. I get the general concepts they were going for and I can see the bones of something really fun that makes you feel strong and good in there, but at the moment I don’t feel like it’s there allot of the time as some bad tuning and questionable design choices really kill it for me at the moment. I have a couple main points that often kind of interlock to sour things for me.
- Probably THE biggest issue I have is durability, or lack there off. Go play Darktide and then SM2 and tell me which one makes you feels more like an unstoppable tank plowing through foes. I’m gonna say that for me at least… it’s not the one where I’m playing as an eight foot tall super-soldier in half a ton of power armor. Even SM1 you just felt way more durable and tanky. In this game it feels like even the ‘chaff’ will chew through you in seconds if you slip up.*
In SM1 executions regained you HEALTH, armor just regened on it’s own and that meant you could actually sustain yourself at full power by killing stuff in battle. In SM1 even if you got really low you had this feeling of, “I’m just a good play and an execution or three from being back in this”, but SM2 has entirely gotten rid of that and hence also that feeling of never really being out of it. The feeling you get instead is “crap I’m low on HP, I need to just avoid the enemy as much as possible and hope my teammates/bots can carry me until maybe I find a medkit.” Much valor, very honor.
And frankly despite that huge hit the armor bar doesn’t really feel much if any stronger then it did in SM1, it gets chewed quickly if you slip up and yet now health is extremely scare on methods to recover. Going back to DT again it also has health that’s doesn’t regen outside of fairly scarce consumables, but it’s armor system is WAY more robust with it generally being tougher, there being numerous ways to get sustained regen (including just having passive regen when near the team) and also damage reduction to it. If you’re built as a ‘tank’ you can in DT actually wade into large enemy groups and tank them, you feel buff and hard to kill. So far I’ve NEVER felt buff and hard to kill in SM1, actually I’ve pretty much felt like I’m clad in the Imperium’s finest tinfoil at all times.
This is made worse by what options you do have to regen armor generally being worse and harder to do. It seems like to an extent the gun and execution moves against the chaff from parry or dodging were supposed to kind of be this, but they kind of fail at it IMO. There’s a fair bit of RNG in terms of the AI deciding to do something you can punish vs the SM1 or DT situation where the player can actively farm the trash mobs for health via their own actions. Like seriously, where the hell is the ‘stun’ button from SM1 that could basically turn any chaff mob into a health pack reliably and quickly? That ALONE might have made this entire thing WAY better.
2} Too many unblockable attacks, particularly on the non-‘boss’ enemies and usually without enough telegraphing and too wide a range IMO. I understand that the idea is probably to prevent being able to mostly use one defensive tool in melee… I just happen to think that’s a poor choice. It’s chaotic enough IMO without this unnecessarily ‘mix-up’ game. Basically IMO Parry should basically be the ‘defense’ vs pretty much everything at melee range and dodge should be ranged attacks/creating space/avoiding really obviously telegraphed moves by large boss enemies.
3) Related to both and why IMO they also feel kind of cruddy: too much delay/lock in on attacks. For a system that has tons of enemies on screen where you’re basically relying on pretty tight window parry/dodges… the degree to which you’re locked into attack animations feels pretty harsh. To me at least it feels like you can see the prompt and basically just be spamming the button, but still eat the hit because of the delay in canceling out of an attack animation. This might work okay in a smaller scale ‘dueling’ type game where committing to an attack at the wrong moment being punished makes sense, but not in something with fifty enemies on screen where guys can just come barreling from off screen at any moment, at least not with more ‘normal’ vs big wind-up attacks.
4 ) Further related is too much stun/interrupt. Everyone loves getting trapped in a hit stun-loop where you can’t do anything as 75% of your scarce HP pool evaporates right? Going back to DT again I can’t think of a single enemy besides the dedicated ‘grabbers’ where getting hit basically just locks the controls while I’m stuck in a long stun animation in the middle of a mob. It’s even better when you manage to dodge/parry something, try to hit the prompt to do your cool move, only to get hit stunned like three times while trying to mash the button. This kind of thing is most often seen in smaller scale dueling type games, and for good reason. Enemies often don’t seem to be subject to nearly as much interrupt as you are either which just kind of rubs salt in the wound. Being shot by a warrior sniper will chunk like half your HP and lay you out flat on your ass for like a second, but a dozen bolter rounds to his fcking chest as he’s charging up won’t throw his aim off even an inch.*
5) Really ranged weapons in general mostly feel kinda ‘bleh’. Maybe they get significantly better at high rarity but as it is starting out outside of a handful of ‘power weapons’, they mostly just feel weak basically needing to mag dump anything bigger then a gaunt to kill it and said mag dump being like 20% of your entire ammo stock. Ranged combat is also bad because there’s no real way to regen armor from range either, so trying to firefight at range basically means just having your not that easily replenished armor chewed up. Even better was the bonehead choice not to retain your zoom level or automatically snap you back into ADS after a dodge just for that little extra annoyance factor.
Circling back around to DT again to wrap it up in that game when I get bodied I usually have a feeling of ‘oh I didn’t play that well’, but thus far for me in SM2 the feeling I’ve been getting allot of the time is "OH THAT’S BULLSHT", which honestly not really the best gut feeling to have in an action game IMO.*
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I’ll prob be playing satisfactory. Not bc of the combat tho
Yeah I guess basically the takeaway is Fatshark’s next spinoff Tide game should be 'Nid Tide or Green Tide with Space Marines as the player characters
I would agree with a lot of the points made here. Just a lot of elements that aren’t challenging due to their design, but due to the level of tedium/frustration.
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my wish for a tide game is where we play as orks
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Never have I been so excited at reading a sentence and so disappointed in knowing it will never happen.
At least we have Speed Freeks.
Oooooh now that I think about it, since Disney is clearly just taking the GW route of 10 years ago and handing out their license to anyone with a pulse, can I get a Clanker Tide Star Wars game? I wanna be a Republic Commando again.
@FatsharkStrawHat Make it happen!
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