If darktide zealots talents are ‘just in case’ bonuses then optimal play will leave you objectively less kitted out than all other classes
@jberns407 @scythid I am with both of you. I was speculating on the reason why they allow melee damage through toughness.
I know I’m a bit late to this thread, but I have to really really strongly disagree with this. Zealot was, to my mind, far and away the worst designed class in V2. He had such abundant THP generation that he was straight up less dangerous to play than most other classes. There was no risk in the risk/reward dynamic, heck it was extremely common even on Cata to see Zealot’s aggressively hit trade for Ult generation, he was extremely strong and tanky, and to boot had a bunch of anti synergy with other characters that made his design feel even worse.
I really don’t want DT Zealot to be anything like that. I really think the low health bonuses are there as insurance, not for you to maintain throughout a whole map. I think it’s fine that they’re like that, though I would agree that with that in mind, the bonuses themselves are undertuned. “But what if I never get low health throughout a whole map”? Awesome, then you played so well as a team you didn’t need them. However (and again if the bonuses were tweaked upwards somewhat), they could be something you REALLY appreciate when things are dire and your back’s against the wall. I think that would be a much more healthy direction to take those talents in than changing mechanics around so you’re actively encouraged to run through a whole map with barely any HP.
It’d be better to have a talent line to reward or incentivise good gameplay though, it’s generally best to not plan for failure yet that seems to currently be zealots entire thing. At least give them some exclusive flat bonuses or something.
I am 100% sure that your fears are overblown considering Darktide Zealot already has multiple core mechanics differentiating it from V2 Zealot.
The first one is corruption. Darktide corruption is already an excellent way to balance out the issues you have with Zealot Saltzpyre, in that taking hits will weaken you if you’re just going ham and letting your toughness infinitely regen to take hits. This also nullifies the need for melee chip.
The second one is that THP and toughness are very different systems. Being low health in Darktide is inherently riskier than in vermintide considering the fact that your toughness doesn’t fill in your missing health. Therefore a low-health Zealot in Darktide is taking a much more serious risk by being low health because he can’t fill up his healthbar with THP like in Vermintide. Darktide Zealot also has no durability feats or passives from being low health.
I also don’t understand how you plan to have a character with low-health buffs that doesn’t inherently encourage players to be at low health to have the buffs all the time. If you make the buffs temporary as well as being conditional on low health, no one will use them unless the buffs were truly overpowered, and maybe not even then. If you have melee chip damage to make it so that toughness will not prevent you from going down at low health, they’ll never be used (like they are right now). I think removing chip to make low-health Zealot somewhat viable is a much more straightforward solution.
I agree the design of Zealot in VT2 isn’t perfect, but the alternative is pretty boring. I can’t imagine Zealot being much fun without playing on low health.
Also, THP gen on VT Zealot is only good with the attack speed, otherwise it’s no better than his other careers and definately not quite as good as spamming the shield heavy 1 and pushes for the stagger THP on other careers.
Maybe not to maintain perfectly, but I think the point of it isn’t just insurance. It’s not nearly as big a buff as in VT2. I always felt it was there so you didn’t feel like you had to worry as much about taking damage as Zealot. Toughness is only 100, maybe 120-140 with really good curios. I don’t think stopping the damage chip through toughness at 20HP would be broken, especially since Zealot talents and abilities in Darktide don’t offer as huge a bonus for low HP as they did in VT2.
If they don’t allow damage chip past 20HP or so in Darktide, it’ll only take maybe 3-4 ranged attacks to destroy your toughness and leave you extremely vulnerable.
Yes. Fatshark has no clue on how to balance classes. VT1 and VT2 are great examples how the community complained for YEARS to see any change. Now Darktide is out and we get to do it ALL OVER AGAIN (: