Why is the Swiftbow still in the game?

It serves no purpose. Shield weapons have all been gutted since V1 but they can serve a purpose. They’re broken, but there is hope they can be fixed sometime this Christmas when Fatshark abandons the console releases.

What does this weapon do that is at all useful to the team? It has non-existent ammo efficiency, is useless against everything except chaff - and is only good against chaff if they line up. It effectively puts you on par with a Flamestorm Staff Sienna in terms of contribution to the team and game.

Which is to say: none.

Great hordeclear, decent against specials and it’s fun. Works in a pinch against armor on charge shots. If you don’t like it, don’t use it?

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  1. Not a great hordeclear. Already said why it doesn’t work: they have to line up, which is not a luxury you get frequently.

  2. As “good” against specials as can be said for the others. Except the others kill them in fewer shots.

  3. Good against armor? That is objectively untrue. It’s not in the weapon’s nature.

Your final point was that ‘it was fun’, so you had no argument at all and you ignored all those present. If you knew the game, you’d know I wasn’t wrong.

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I do sort of agree as basically all the other bows are better and actually have a purpose to use them.

The only reason i can see people using a swift bow is for, a ton of arrows so you can just take out light armoured enemies quicker and also to stagger enemies. It is also decent as chipping a way at a bosses health but i do agree, Compared to the other bows it’s a lot worse seen as it doesn’t really have a place it excels in. Apart from spamming arrows.

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Here’s a video taken with Legend values, 20% Skaven, 20% Monster, and the wild difference in ammo efficiency between the Swiftbow and the Hagbane, for example, versus a boss, which is the only other realistic use for it outside of column shanking: magdumping.

tl;dw: The swiftbow has to use up its entire ammo cap to do half the bosses HP, up to around 70-75% with a strength potion. You basically nailed it on the head either way, compared to her other options it doesn’t make a lick of sense.

I was once told by a certain someone (and his points were both untenable) that the Swiftbow has a place in the arsenal because:

  1. No other weapon lets you kill while moving at 100% move speed. This is completely false.
  1. “I use it to shoot ambient enemies while we move through areas.” Which means he used it to shoot enemies the team was never going to engage in the first place. The act of doing this, ever, proves a waste of ammo as well.

When it comes down to the hordes, you have to use the Swiftbow for columns, or the Hagbane which covers everything, and even misses are hits. There’s nothing you can feasibly do with this weapon that nothing else is covering.

Also to really settle this, before anyone goes hunting down some ‘True Solo’ video to disprove me: True Solo is not a qualification for anything. The game is demonstrably easier and makes major concessions for the player when fewer heroes are alive.

Vermintide 2 is a cooperative FPS based on working with a team etcetc. If anything, True Solo merely highlights other problems with the game, such as bosses having far too much health and melee being too weak against them.

I have to be a stickler and point out that you ADS with the Hagbane but just hipfire the Swift Bow. So the test can’t be considered a real comparison since Hagbane gets addition poison DoT with ADS along with the shot hitting harder.
I went to the mod server myself and did a hipfire vs hipfire and ADS vs ADS test and the bows do nearly the same damage when emptying out hipfiring and the Swiftbow does more ADS damage. All shots aiming towards the head area.

So based on that they seem to have identical total damage per capita shot on a Rat Ogre. However, Hagbane does have the DPS advantage.

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The Swift Bow’s horde clearing speed (and ammo efficiency, taking into count the total ammo) can rival the Hagbane in my experience (and no, the enemies don’t need to be in a single line, just a bit clustered or with some care, even quite sparse), and it needs far less careful shot placement than either of the other bows. That leads to it being somewhat better for emergencies with (unarmored) specials, and for simple reflex shots. True, its boss damage is nothing special, and its use against armor is usable at best. Unless you headshot, the Longbow is nothing special against bosses either, and similarly, Hagbane is not really better against armor.

On Handmaiden and Shade you’re very likely better off using something a bit more specialized, but on Waystalker, Swift Bow is very much a usable option. It’s the only one of Kerillian’s bows I can realistically have out for most of the map without being more of a burden than help to my team. I can use it (at least moderately well) against anything except Chaos Warriors, and those are the bane of ranged weapons anyway. So while either of the other two (or three, on Shade) are often more useful, the Swift bow is the generalist option.

In any game, having fun is in fact a quite strong argument. Not everyone wants to fully optimize or play tactical rock-paper-scissors. After all, people find their fun from different things, and having fun is the primary point of entertainment, games included. If I didn’t find the game fun, I wouldn’t play it. And yes, spamming arrows like there’s no tomorrow is really quite fun.

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a swiftbow is an infantry killing machine. it basically destroys anything without armor. of course it isn’t going to be good against armor, you’re going to have to use your melee weapon for those (some builds use melee weapon for armor and ranged for infantry) on the waystalker you can pretty much spam swiftbow without a care because your ammo regen tops it really fast, 3 arrows every 7 seconds plus trueshot return. try spamming at every mob with the rest of the bows: you’ll run out of ammo fast. and you cannot deny the utility of having an accurate bowman actively taking out threats from a distance. you might think that chaff and hordes are not a threat, but when 4 disabler specials are lurking around and your party is distracted by ambients and a horde, it’s going to be a problem.

also… the flamer on both sienna and IB is fantastic on legend. 1 person to handle horde and hyperdensity and perma stunlock for stormvermins, infantry and single chaos warriors. you’ll find that a good flamer makes the run so smooth.

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If you can’t manage great hordeclear with a swiftbow you don’t know how to use it.

Not at all what I said. I said it works in a pinch against armor. Those are different. It’s perfectly capable to take down a ratling gunner, or scattered SV.

How is this not a good argument? Is playing this game your job? Lmao

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Same as some people says.
I run Swiftbow on Waystalker, can’t see it working anywhere else.
And yes, being fun is definitively an good point. I have no interest of being the best player of all time (that’s why I only do champion. I’ll do Legend later, for careers achievements).

So yeah, remove Swiftbow, you’ll end up not changing anything to the optimized player, and taking fun away from the one who play for fun. Only bad sides :stuck_out_tongue:

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Giving due acknowledgement to OP, Swiftbow is not the optimal choice in the majority of situations. However, it does have situations where it can excel.
If this was a topic on the Hagbane blowing the Swiftbow out of the water on a boss fight I would agree without contest. But it’s a bit much to suggest that the Swiftbow has no value at all.

I main WS and I use the swiftbow occasionally on any difficulty other than Legend, in which case I take the hagbane. The SB is viable on lower difficulties, to be fair, pretty much any weapon is usable on lower difficulties.

Should you take it in Legend, probably not… But hey, I got kicked from a party the other day for using the “weak hagbane” instead of the longbow lol. With 20% monster damage and 10% skaven and chaos on my WS, I absolutely slaughter bosses. The only class I’ve been able to kill bosses faster with, is a shade using a purple potion and ULT spamming.

Lol, its so OP, what idiots.

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But it doesn’t kill enemies in 1 hit directly on contact… so, you know, “meh feeling” is that it’s weak. Seems to be the general train of thought when it comes to most discussions regarding weapons/builds on this game lol.

highest boss damage in the game, low ammo compensated for by passive ammo regen, can wipe a chaos patrol with a potion and 3-4 shots. Yup it sucks… also 1 shots hookrats with a full duration dot, and you can easily kill them in waves.

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“I use it to shoot ambient enemies while we move through areas.” Which means he used it to shoot enemies the team was never going to engage in the first place. The act of doing this, ever, proves a waste of ammo as well.

Ambient’s out of the way is not a waste of ammo as these can get pulled when a horde starts, so smart clearing of ambient’s can be very good. I am not arguing that the swift bow should be used for that, just bringing attention to that detail.

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