as we all know a single tick of fire dmg, be it from a bomber’s grenade, a flamer’s stream/trail of fire or a barrel’s(apparently not barrels which makes it even more of a weird incosistency with the rest of the game) they all cause toughness to be instantly destroyed
no ifs or buts, not even explained anywhere in game either, just smth you gotta learn the hard way, it is also completely unintuitive as nothing else really does anything like this outside of the big hits from big elite enemies/monsters/bosses
a single tick of damage from fire and you can go from 200(or any number) toughness to 0
why is this a thing? i cant find any dev response regarding the rationale of why this is a thing and why it was never changed/tweaked
is toughness really that strong that it needs this one-shot mechanic to keep in check?(it isnt)
is it really balanced to have multiple sources of damage over time hazards where a SINGLE tick removes ALL toughness and starts damaging health? is it really balanced for a single tick of fire dmg to invalidate toughness-boosting skills?(i.e if you take a single tick of fire dmg after using your veteran shout there goes you entire toughness bar+the 50(soon to be 100) flat bonus it gives
would it really be overpowered for players to simply take normal damage overtime to their toughness while on fire surfaces?
just make the fire dmg only apply to toughness first(if you have any of course) but at a faster rate than it damages health
I can only imagine it’s so that fire and firebombs feel like a real threat. In that respect, going to 0 instantly definitely works. They could probably change it to do 2x/3x toughness damage and achieve the same result while giving people a little more leeway there.
IMO the bigger problem with fire is how hard it is to read where flamers will hit and where they’ll leave fire on the ground. Firebombs are an awareness check most of the time. You can escape them without taking damage if you act quickly and the area they cover is usually pretty predictable. Flamers are really unpredictable with how they lay down pools of fire on the ground.
Lingering flame particles from Flamers are the real killer, when you take them out and go back to fighting horde and your foot taps it. But this is a hold over from when toughness was a proper shield, and now is just kept to amplify the punish of specialists. I am quite excited for the change where Bombers will have to actually pull the pin to drop one when dying, and not just automatically equip one a short duration after throwing.
I think the biggest issue for me with Bombers and Flamers is just consistency.
We the players take huge amounts of damage when we get trapped in a fire trail, but other enemies such as Dregs or whatevs, take nowhere near the same damage as us.
We get stunned by a Bomber grenade, enemies don’t.
It’s the consistency of the rules of the game, or rather the lack of, that I sometimes get a bit annoyed about.
Barrel fire doesn’t break your toughness, only enemy fire does it.
I’m fine with it, they would literally be 0 threat if they didn’t do at least that.
What i would like to be tweaked is the visual to make more understandable when the fire is out.
Honestly it’s fine. I like that this game has a few ways to soften you up even on toughness builds. That’s their purpose.
Give you a big kick to the stomache for missing that dodge.
If you allow Bombers to roam free for multiple minutes, you SHOULD be punished.
I don’t have an issue is a very obvious thing after the first time you learn exactly what not to do.
See a flamer? You kill it or break LOS.
See a bomber? You stagger it so the bomb doesn’t end up in you or you kill it, or you see that red beeping flashing and you move away.
Or if you get hit by fire you know that you immediately have to play defensively to regain your toughness, now with changes a lot of builds have very quick toughness recovery so it’s less punishment than it used to be.
Flamers and bombers, as they are now, feels on par with other specials in terms of how quickly they can turn things south if left unchecked. For someone who only plays auric, I more often only get one tick from fire when I mess up my movement, than multiple ticks.
How much fire should damage toughness could be made to scale with difficulty up to being a one-hit on damnation, if anything.
I’m fine with it, they would literally be 0 threat if they didn’t do at least that.
why? is damage suddenly not a threat? feel like we can have fire be a threat without the threat being 1 shot to toughness in 1 tick of dmg regardless of how much toughness you have, be it 1 or 300
grenadier rats from VT2 didnt have to instantly remove ALL THP, they simply did chunks of damage per tick
fire surfaces here could EASILY be changed for smth more reasonable
They could probably change it to do 2x/3x toughness damage and achieve the same result while giving people a little more leeway there.
that is what i think would be make the most sense, maybe add a quick escalation to the dmg so that literally just dipping your toes into it for a microsecond doesnt still chunk you but still remains a threat if u get caught by a flamer mid horde with your pants down or fail to listen for a bomber’s sound cue while in a hard to leave spot(i.e have dmg quickly go from 0% all the way to 100%+multipliers for toughness dmg over the course of like ~0.5 seconds, or just make it apply stacks of burn to us so the longer we stay the more dmg we take inside the fire and for a while after leaving it, not a straight up toughness one shot)
I like that this game has a few ways to soften you up even on toughness builds. That’s their purpose.
fire dmg over time that lingers even after leaving it would remain a fine way to soften us up without having to one-shot toughness regardless of ammount
globadier rats were easily one of the most dangerous enemies thanks to their arching projectiles and the amount of area denial they could do, specially to teams relying too much on bunkering down in tight quarters
only change besides the toughness one shot made between globadiers and scab bombers is the addition of a fuse and doing light damage to their own allies, no real reason for the former imo
i dont think touching fire for a split second should be doing more dmg than being shot with bullets or struck with axes and hammers to the face
See a flamer? You kill it or break LOS.
See a bomber? You stagger it so the bomb doesn’t end up in you or you kill it, or you see that red beeping flashing and you move away.
idk why you feel the need to give pointless advice, yes this is what i do, doesn’t stop me from thinking that 1 tick of fire dmg one-shotting toughness regardless of ammount is bad balancing
fire dmg can be made into a threat without being such an odd discrepancy
Yeah, simple % THP damage (with a pretty large %, like 25+) would not be abusable and would be much preferable to losing it all instantly. While surely it’ll make the game easier, it going to play much better than current “hot floor is lava” meta for any THP-heavy builds.
yeah even % based chunking to ensure it remains a big threat even to toughness tanks would be way better than the current 1 shot regardless of time actually spent touching the fire
The game is easy enough as it is. We really don’t need nerfs to one of the few specials who can put the hurt on. He already gets a big nerf next patch. Enough already. Leave some challenge for us.
there has to be a compromise between 1 shots toughness and absolutely zero challenge, maybe a shorter fuse on top of making it simply do(significant) damage to toughness
the challenge is completely artificial, there is no logical reason for fire and ONLY fire surfaces to for some reason one shot toughness regardless of how much you have
it’s really not fine as it is but im pretty sure nothing is gonna convince ya and it’s, just gonna remain a back and forth of “its fine as it is, get used to it” vs “no its not its dumb and makes no sense from a logical or design standpoint” ad infinitum
Because there is no rational aside from FS being lazy.
Dev 1 “Hey, we need a way to make players afraid during missions.”
Dev 2 “Lets put in mobs that put down fire and make it destroy all their toughness at a single touch.”
Dev 3 “Great idea! We’ll make it persist and that will make them scared.”
After all, its not like they have to consider what happens when you get a bomber or three stuck somewhere you just can’t shoot them due to LOS but they can rain grenades down on you. Grenades that burn longer than the bombers reload time so you end up playing “the floor is lava” until you can unlock the door or by some minor miracle the bomber actually moves someplace its possible to shoot them.
A superior method would have been to reverse the setup. Instead of taking toughness down instantly, fire-based attacks bane would be toughness due to only doing marginal damage to our “shield”. However if that shield is lost (say by ranged fire or a lucky hit from a melee mob) then fire would HURT. As in you have only a little time to get out before it chews away your health then you drop. This way you have time to judge how long you can stay and actual options, not just having to automatically avoid any area completely until the flames are totally gone.