So now there’s 5 sources of fire that are different, and 4 of them look similar? I’d just settle for Zealot’s being a little easier to distinguish.
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I think it’s also because fire is for area control. If we could run through it without getting our toughness instantly nuked, fire, especially flamer trails, would lose pretty much all of its zoning power.
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i like this idea too
edit: on further thought while i do like the idea it would change them too much from area denial + toughness destroyer to area denial + punishing low/empty toughness
again there has to be a compromise between one shots and no threat at all
globadiers werent coded to one shot THP regardless of amount(lets ignore the differences between THP and toughness for a second) but they still did signifcant dmg regardless and werea big threat
and there are ways to make them a threat while tweaking this weirdness, just make it do sizeable toughness dmg over time without one shotitng it(and maybe raise their HP dmg a tad to compensate) or Eviltreerat’s idea of making toughness be really resistant to fire dmg but make health REALLY weak to it
Again, it does not and the threat is already adequately balanced by you having a health pool to counter-act the loss of the toughness.
You could also stack up to 60% Bomber Resistance so you can play burning man and take a stroll through the fire.
But maybe it would be easier just to accept that Bombers are high value targets you need to shut down first. They should be very high on your priority list, only superseded by Flamers, Trappers and Dogs.
Globadier’s projectiles were hit on impact, Bomber grenades have a 1 second fuse. So it’s natural the Globadiers would give you more of a grace period with their damage.
Besides, the Bombers do have a grace period, too. The first tick of the fire debuff does zero damage, only subsequent ticks delete Toughness and then starting dealing HP damage. So you got 1 second before the bomb goes off + 1 tick (0.1 seconds or so) to escape. The bomb makes audible noise, flashes red and the Bomber is a real squadman about his attack pattern. He gives an audio clue when he throws the first bomb.
It honestly is intended design and fine. This is a classic skill adjustment issue. As you play more T5 Auric you will get used to dancing around the fire lakes. Sometimes they are even helpful with Horde clear.
So many words and all I read is
“I can’t adjust to the challenge presented, so I will insult the guy who came up with the challenge and then propose an inferior change that is suitable to my limited wits”.
That’s a horrible idea by the way. Nobody would take Bombers serious as disablers/area denial if they did the same tickle damage to our toughness, that most pox walkers already do.
Characters like the Ogryn already out-regen that. I can think of one setup for every class that’d allow you to absolutely ignore Bombers, even while standing in multiple layers of flames.
For somebody calling others too lazy to think, you sure don’t make much use of your braingum yourself.
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If fire did only tick damage to your toughness, then nobody would take damage from fire unless they were disabled. There are many ways for instant toughness regeneration. Many builds could literally stand on the fire for quite a few seconds without taking any damage; this would trivialize the threat of bombers and flamers
Correct, and I agree, the Zealot fire should look compleatly different, like blue or purple.
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Again, it does not
again yes it does, your justifications never go beyond “i like it this way and i’ll justify it as it being a ‘challenge’!”
it also doesnt change the fact that the arching nature of their projectiles can lead to them firing their bombs from outside a group’s reach or LoS mid horde which turns challenge to frustration and this is an annoyingly common phenomenom
Globadier’s projectiles were hit on impact
i did also suggest a reduction to fuze time to compensate but i also dont think the fuze time justifies the toughness one shot
also my issue is not that the bombs(or bombers) have hard to notice cues or that it’s hard to try to get away, the issue is that a single tick of fire dmg from these surfaces do more(read:infinite) toughness dmg than anything else in the game in a single tick, you can be in the fire for 0.2 seconds or 10 and the amount of toughness dmg it deals is the same, infinite, instantly
its bad, its dumb, it doesnt really make any sense, its artificial challenge for no real reason
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If fire did only tick damage to your toughness, then nobody would take damage from fire unless they were disabled
that is just not true tho? like this is a ridiculous exageration
Many builds could literally stand on the fire for quite a few seconds without taking any damage; this would trivialize the threat of bombers and flamers
considering we have no exact numbers even suggested idk how you came to a conclusion like that
but even if our toughness could last, idk, 2 whole seconds(as opposed to 0.1) within a damnation bomber’s fire patch from full toughness(assuming roughly 200 toughness when it starts ticking) that would very much not erase their threat specially if the health dmg is bumped up a little to compensate
specially not the flamers whose job is both setting you on fire and blocking our view just because the toughness dmg of their flames goes from infinite/sec to 100ish/sec
you people exagerate too much, even if their dmg was taken down to that much no one would actually want to just stand in the fire for fun or think it can be safely ignored
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Sorry, I was not accurate with my wording, I meant nobody that has a reaction time superior to a sloth would take damage from fire.
Honestly, if you need 3 whole seconds to avoid a very telegraphed attack, I think bombers and flamers are the least of your problems.
Avoiding fire is simple enough, the objective of fire is area denial for the players. If you give them the possibility to pass through it for free, then you may as well remove it from the game.
It is not about standing in the fire for the fun of it, but if you would never be cut away from your team or have an escape route blocked because of it and could take your sweet time, maybe kill a few other priority targets while standing in it.
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Sorry, I was not accurate with my wording, I meant nobody that has a reaction time superior to a sloth would take damage from fire.
its like talking to a wall that can only reply back with silly exaggeration
If you give them the possibility to pass through it for free, then you may as well remove it from the game.
seriously its like yall are physically incapable of engaging in good faith, might as well respond in kind i guess
yeah man taking your entire toughness bar in dmg + health dmg cause you stay in it too long is JUST like letting people pass through it for free, yeah they should just remove it from the game, i agree, would save us the headache of arguing about it, way to go you
since you edited the comment to have a bit of coherence:
if you would never be cut away from your team or have an escape route blocked because of it and could take your sweet time
this remains a ridiculous hyperbole, even in that scenario you’d still have to consider whether or not you can make it through the fire even if their toughness dmg was slightly dialed back, it would at best save people some health due to toughness eating some ticks of dmg rather than 1(or is it 0?), this without considering the fact that you’d be fighting other enemies factoring into your decision to want to cross it or not
again you people are visualizing anything short of infinite toughness dmg on the 1st tick to be equal to 0 toughness dmg
if your issue was with the “2 seconds” i mentioned man i don’t know the exact numbers on dmg per tick on each difficulty and tick rate to substitute the instant toughness nuke, this would require proper testing(which i cannot do as we cant just host a modded client) or paper-only number crunching which isnt as useful
but even having toughness be nuked over the course of 0.5 seconds with very fast ticks of dmg would still be a huge improvement while ensuring you do not ever want to stay in the fire and that flamers/bombers would remain priority targets that can ruin your day if caught in a bad spot with your pants down
It’s you arguing in bad faith, it’s clear that you are not good in reacting to bombers and flamers and instead of learning the skillset you are asking for them to be easier to deal.
You can argue numbers and tickrates as much as you want, the vast majority of the playerbase, and more importantly, the developers, believe that how fire works is fair. Don’t get caught in a bad spot with your pants down, and you will have no problem with it either.
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It’s you arguing in bad faith
“no you” oh yeah you got me man, congrats, jig is up for me damn, i will never financially recover from this, might even affect the trout population
the vast majority of the playerbase … believe that how fire works is fair.
uhm, source? did i miss this poll on fire puddles or smth?
like i fully understand this thread is coming initially from my opinions and thoughts but i didnt know i missed a survey about it dang, thats sad 
as for what the devs think, obviously its important but… they are people, they arent incapable of bad judgements or of changing their minds(thats a big part of what patches are for… changing things that they thought were fine balance-wise), plus i can only assume they arent a monolith(would help to get an actual dev response on this topic, if u know of one feel free to link it)
Quite usless traying to be sassy, you are not able to deal with how fire works and are trying to convice others (with little success) to support your claim.
Uhm forums? Have you seen how many threads about crafting or vet power level have been made in the past year? If community is not fine with something they speak loudly in this forums and there are debates. About fire puddles is just you, even in this thread, that you would assume would catch the attentions of people supporting your ideals there is no one.
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Quite usless traying to be sassy, you are not able to deal with how fire works
yeah you’re so right i freeze like a deer in front of headlights when i hear a bomber’s or a flamer’s sound cues, its so scary!!!`111!!!11!2
lmao this is pathetic, guess you can do more than just hyperbole, grow up tho, please
Uhm forums? … If community is not fine with something they speak loudly in this forums and there are debates. About fire puddles is just you
beyond this being a stupid metric considering a relatively tiny % of players even use the official forums(or any really), there have in fact been previous threads and posts in other threads about this topic so there goes that argument, should prolly have checked before making yourself look dumb huh, would taken like 2 seconds
also there are people in this thead who are also of the mind that enemy fire dmg could use tweaks, just cause the ones posting the most are you and Mayson it doesnt mean other people poofed out of existance
Have fun living in your delusions man, and a little advice to you: get good!
Because you are a reject. You might be given the most expensive weaponary known to man, but you cannot afford shoes.
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I’d argue that there’s a very* fine line between these here. As I said, it’s a zoning tool. It’s entire purpose is to limit our movement and control where we can and can’t go. In order to do that effectively, it needs to be strong enough that we don’t want to go near it unless it’s absolutely necessary. I’m not sure that’s possible to achieve if there’s a significant chance of getting through it with any toughness.
Since it is a zoning tool, making it do low toughness damage and high hp damage would defeat it’s purpose. We’d just walk through it.
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I mean is it pointless if you’re still taking the damage and wanting it changed, because if you don’t take the damage or realise you’re about to lose toughness and play around that then fire is no different to melee or ranged, but right now it is.
Forcing a different reaction is good for the game if it did anything less than instant it would just be like taking ranged damage.
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I just wrote you two different paragraphs on the topic, but I will rephrase according to the issue you have.
This game balancing is centered around speed and strength of attacks standing in relation to reaction time granted for evading (or blocking or parrying if possible) them. The more time you have to react, the heavier the penalty for being hit.
On the transparently telegraphed, strong attack end of the spectrum we have:
→ Traitor Captain melee attacks
→ Crusher One-shot overhead strikes
→ Sniper rifle shots
Among the Disabler category of enemy types, the Bomber is the main candidate for this category:
→ He moves slow and also has reduced speed for throwing and climbing animations
→ He is weak and squishy, dies in one hit to most attacks
→ His projectile has a slow and predictable throwing arc you can observe
→ His bomb once landed gives you more than 1 second to evade it
→ His bomb even partially works in your favor - It cancels pox hound jumps, kills Horde trash mobs and on Lights Out it’s a reliable light source
Now, you say the fuze time doesn’t justify the toughness deletion. But this is the fundamental part where I also disagree, because you do have a lot more time than the fuze time.
All in all, you get:
- The Bomber moving in position (as he deliberately says “moving into position”)
- His throwing animation, easily 0.5 seconds
- You get the projectile flying time, depending on distance 0.1 - 3 seconds
- And after all that you then you get the fuze time on top
That’s easily more than 4 seconds to react. He is the slowest obstacle this game has to offer along with the sniper and the crusher.
His one schtick is, when he does hit, he will delete your toughness. It’s your “punishment” as a player for feigning ignorance to his obvious and threatening presence.
Should his toughness deletion be removed, there would be no longer a POINT to the Bomber’s existence.
You called him artificial difficulty, but by the nature we just discussed he is inherently the opposite. He is the fairest enemy type this game has to offer. Even the Poxwalkers get the occasional random cheap shots in, but the Bomber cannot. In the current design it is not possible to be surprised by the Bomber. Whenever you die to the Bomber, you either messed up or the match was already over anyway because you were surrounded by enemies while netted.
There is no other situation in which the Bomber is a viable threat to you. It’s not possible.
It’s Design is good, is intelligent, it makes all the sense in the world. It is a fair challenge. It is the opposite of everything you claimed it to be.
It is in fact PERFECT DESIGN. One of the few things in this game Fatshark had absolutely nailed from the very first iteration of it’s release. The Bombers are perfect.
Thus there is no need for changes. Whatever you propose is on you being unwilling on dealing with the challenge presented.
You simply need to work on your situational awareness and positioning a little.
And when you do, you will be styling on bombers like the majority of this community does.
We are arguing in good faith. We just don’t agree with what you have to say and you don’t like it.
Yes, you do deserve to have your toughness “deleted”, if you cannot react to +4 seconds of wind-up.
Look if you play this game somewhat drowsy after work, I get you. That happens to me, too. But that’s not an issue with the game design. Just play when you have the attention span to react, instead of demanding the game slow down even further for you (it is already on the slow side all things considered - This game is incredibly forgiving in many aspects).