Waystalker and other "Ranged Careers" disparities

OK so as the Waystalker, choosing the Swift Bow, I get an ammo pool of 74 shots.

Huntsman with the Repeater (a comparable weapon) gets 40.
Saltzpyre with Volley Crossbow (comparable?) gets 45.

Waystalker gets two talents that regen ammo. One where you don’t have to do ANYTHING, the other you just mash your face into the keyboard (your nose will eventually hit F)
Huntsman gets one but ONLY if you can consistently land headshots CONSTANTLY.

So we are comparing “Press F” and “Do absolutely nothing” with “CONSISTENTLY land headshots in the heat of combat”.

Anyone see a disparity here?

Saltzpyre gets one that gets you back ammo if you combine it with ammo on crit. Which the WS can also do anyway and get even more LOL mode ammo.

The WS can also use the Glaive which is the weapon which has answers for every single question and can delete a Chaos Warrior in about two seconds.

As a WS it really is just LOL mode the whole time. If you can handle yourself in melee and you can press F you really have nothing to fear.

I will concede that the BH is in a pretty good place but at least the 3 ammo pools could be lined up.

HS Kruber is just miles behind unless you use the longbow but then we are comparing Longbow Kruber and Longbow WS which is basically the other role and those two match reasonably well…so we are directly comparing Repeater HS and Swift Bow WS.

Right now WS with Swift Bow gets twice as much ammo as comparable weapons on other classes and twice as many, twice as easy options for regen.

My proposal: HS Kruber’s ammo regen and ammo pool is brought in line with the Waystalker. Kruber gets a talent option that gives him 20% ammo (of his now 74 ammo pool) with using his ult and maybe even an ultra lame passive ammo regen too like the WS. That would still leave him short of the health regen of the WS which I can live with.

HS Kruber with Repeater Gun would then be viable and a comparable experience with the Swift Bow WS which it IMO should be.



You know he regens like 40 ammo with single shot?

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All the time or under very specific circumstances?

Well my friend usually gets like 10 melee kills in legend runs. And around 500+ ranged. And he dont even use ammo crates. Soo. Yeah. Probably all the time.

OK for the sake of the thread how does Saltzpyre regen 40 ammo with a single shot, all the time?

I think it’s triple shot crossbow with ammo on crit regen with his guarantied crit chance. So If he shots in any kind of group of mobs he gets full ammo.

That requires:

  1. A tight group of enemies
  2. Each of the three shots to penetrate multiple enemies
  3. Aiming and hitting

Kruber’s requires:

  1. Consistently hitting headshots in the heat of combat (in a cloud of smoke with the Repeater)
  2. Landing multiple penetrating headshots on a tight group of enemies (with the Repeater?)

Neither of those are really “All the time”.

The WS ammo regen requires:

  1. Doing nothing
  2. Pressing F

Aiming into horde? Srsly? Tight group of enemies it’s like all the time? You know his ammo pull allows him to shoot everything and then regen full ammo when wave starts.

Kruber is kinda meh thats true.

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Also specify dificulty you play on. WW swift bow is kinda garbage on legend.

Yeah, that’s true. We are talking about Swiftbow vs. Repeater vs. Volley Crossbow here.

Longbow WS vs. Longbow Kruber is reasonably well matched.

Thumbs up for the super funny and truthful first half, but can’t agree on the second part. Can’t agree on the conclusions, because they are faulty, can’t agree on the suggestions, because, imho, only a thorough rework of all ranged careers can solve these problems. Fixing 1 or 2 talents won’t help… well, it might help, but only by completely ruining ranged classes. Without deep changes ranged classes are either going to be OP, or useless, or ranged combat will be their sole privilege, and there is no middle ground here.

I have already made a post about it, so you can go read it there if you want.

In short, I think a party should have 2 ranged careers max and Scrounger should be nerfed. That’s the best possible solution in my opinion.

The Grudgeraker and Blunderbuss would be absolutely awful without Scrounger. They basically almost need it.

Why not increase their ammo pool to compensate? And from what I’ve heard Grudgeraker is much better with Conservative Shooter. And I am suggesting reducing the bonus by 50%, not entirely removing the MOST OP WEAPON TRAIT in the game.

Nah, I tested the two and Scrounger works far better.

Wouldn’t argue with just increasing the ammo pool, though.

I guess, going back to the original post, I would be happy if WS just had to actually EARN that ammo regen through performance like the other classes do.

scrounger is better if only because you can alt fire to get all your ammo back. it actually hits a stupid amount of targets and you can hold a choke by just using your gun melee. a friend and i pretty routinely play kruber/bardin in DOOM mode and never swap off our shotguns.

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Yeah the GR and BB alt attack (which is melee but counts as ranged) can fill your ammo back up with a couple of lucky crits on a horde. It leaves you more vulnerable than switching to melee as there is no block so there is a trade off.

Either way it still requires:

  1. Clever trait selection
  2. A horde
  3. Some actual risk and skilful manouevring/attack timing

…rather than:

  1. Doing nothing
  2. Pressing F

But in return BH tends to outperform waystalker from what i usually see, and he gets to have a working F too.

Waystalker F sometimes just fizzles out of existance doing nothing, or it disregards the aimed on target and hits something else…or flies in circles around the target before vanishing.

Waystalker gets to have regen and spear/axe in return.

I think that WS should be the only career to have ammunitions regen… cause she does less damage than other ranged careers.

Atm WS ammo regen is just comparable to Kruber’s for anything but the Swiftbow.

Swiftbow regenerates a lot of ammo, but anyway it does little damage per shot.

really? i’d like to see your performance in legend lol

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