I like the third suggestion (remove wall upon certain damage to boss). This seems like the only skill-based solution here.
Ammo at the wall seems unnecessary with changes to melee damage vs. monsters and rewards you for bad resource management. Same for the increase to monster damage as last man standing. The change to melee damage already helps compensate for this.
The respawn at the wall is an okay solution but feels a bit too easy. It sort of begs the question of why your teammates are dead in the first place and removes the penalty for playing badly. If weâre being honest, you probably werenât going to clutch revive your team with a boss on you and rushing into an area filled with new ambients anyway - unless you were a high-mobility class (Handmaiden). Hell, youâre probably going to struggle to revive at the wall with a boss if youâre alone â unless, again, you have high mobility or are able to manipulate terrain/monster pathing. If you have two people, then just kill the bossâŚ
To be honest, Iâve rarely seen this as a problem on my recent runs. The bosses go down super fast with the changes to melee damage and are now pretty easy to solo. So /shrug?
Nah, guys. You seem to understand this intention to bring boss walls wrong. Thats not what supposed to âmake those HM speedrun deeds cry, cause they have 200 more for achievmentâ. Thats also wouldnt make boss more fun or challenging. Thats a lazy fix to AI causing âno spawnsâ or âret arded behaviorâ after aggroing too much ambients/hordes and loading your i3/fx6xxx to the point it no longer can make foes to attack, move, or even spawn at all.
You all know the issue of proceeding through map quickly as last man standing usually breaks specials spawn. If you ever tried soloing non-lord map without glitching âout of mapâ, you know that there will be one teleporting disabler ahead (leech, sin, whatever) and then nothing, until map event starts which makes specials spawn again. And even that can be bugged if you run potato cpu.
I bet there will be much less legend speedrunners, if things works as they should to. Think of horde of cws and svs chasing you with double boss, even with one of them slow and specials keep trying to wreck you, narrow corridors blocked with elites etc etc. Thats how speed run should work. Not the way "i blink/leap two times - no specails. im halfway through map - enemies will not try to attack me, cause they cant see me.
And I dont get yours personal reason whining about people speedrunning anything. What you have with it? They ruin your immersion? You dont like movie âMission impossibleâ? They called your mom a rat? Stahp it! If people feel like they having more fun without you, let them have it
I agree with you BUT:
Speedrunners can ruin the fun for players the like to play slowly and get all books. Maybe if we could give names to our hosted gamesâŚ
In my 800+ hours of legend quickplay, havent seen any âspeedrunsâ ruining immersion. People usually start moving forward as fas as they can if all their teammates died, to revive them, only to die again. This not even tied to bosses. People can die to a wave/ambush, two blended monks, specials, or being deaf to chaos patrol. Then you should probably ask to make âno respawnâ, to not ruin your immersion. As last man standing inegend pug run i will usually try to move forward as fast as possible, cause of specials. I can say I good at this game, but not godlike. Assassin or double packmaster still can wreck me, even if im playing handmaiden. And I ve seen lots of âtrue soloâsâ or speedruns ruined by assassins, multiple disablers and other unlucky stuff. Bosses have no toe with it.
Wouldnât any of these options be better:
a) the bridge of shadows can be activated only when the boss is dead and/or
b) the boss teleports if it is left very far behind the players, preferably ahead, even in the middle of lord fights?
It kind of baffles me that people want the walls removed. Should be all in, beat the boss or lose. The beta patch is already easier/more forgiving then live build, why make things even easier?
try split your text up a bit, a large wall of text is not interresting to read. People will read like one line and go berzerk in their head because of the density ^^.
I suggest reading the post i made earlier, speedrunning only add a game withing the game wich is enjoyable, there is no lore holding you back from running trough the maps.
People do it for fun when they are tired and boored of doing it the normal way. it only adds to the game, not destroying it.
It gives more freedom to the way you can play the game. hence the walls on every boss is stupid.
Have it like they had, open on fast bosses, closed on slow bosses.
much more fun with more options and people will stay with the game for longer.
the Beta patch balance out all the shitty melee weapons we wanted to use since start, so it is not easier only more balanced.
speedrunning like in vermintide - end times is considered to be a challenge on its own, it dont ruin the gameplay in any way. But creating barriers in how the game is played will cause people to leave it when they get boored of it, Instead of having optional ways to play it.
The new maps were great, but you got boored of them real quick because they lack challenge with a decent team. Specially in the ending events. Most likely ending get fixed tho.
We have smaller hordes, less hordes, less specials in general, less frequent 2+2 disabler spawns, for some reason overbuffed DnD/SnD Infiltrate boss damage, yep itâs not easier in any wayâŚ
Ah, I forgot, Sigmar bless FS, they fixed that annoying bug with delay after push on Kerrilianâs Zweihander. Oh, they donât, good job, itâs only half a year passed, you buff weapon, but canât fix a simple bug that makes it so clunky.
Yeah can Kinda agree to what you say here about the bugged hordes etc. But damage is still more balanced out than it ever was. Some Classes are still broken.
We all chose to play a unfinished beta patch now, remember alot of small stuff happens during feedback.
Remember to take into consideration that it is still a beta patch for a couple of days/weeks.
For the mechanics and item fixes i can agree some of the stuff which is still there an have been since closed beta annoy the hell outta us.
Btw sweihander got a delay? Never noticed Will check into it and add it into the bug report list im writing for this patch.
Is it a bug tho or is it Just the sweihander acting like sweihander? I Will look into that one and add it to the list.
After that pray that someone read it and fix the small stuff and not everything else that breaks the program. -. -
Try Elven one itâs different grom Salty/Soldierâs and try to perform push-stab-light or push w/o stab and any attack. Then youâll understand what Iâm talking about.
If my absolute hate that I have for this mechanic could have become more absolute, it would have last nightâŚ
The wall blocked us in what was literally a small, tight arena on the bridge of the Fort. And the monster managed to push one of us behind the wall, which couldnât be passed through from that side either.
How does it divide the team? And what bugs? Weâve never run into any problems with the boss walls. Sure if someone is killed during the boss they might spawn behind the wall but so what? If you have infinite possibilities to ress your party during a boss fight, the boss fight serves no purpose.
Hook rat hooked me and dragged me ages away and through boos wall. Another hookrat hooks someone trying to recover me âthey hook through the boss wallâ and drags them through the boss wall.
Boss Walls are bad design. Get rid of them, I donât care if a few people are 'speed running to avoid the heinous loot system, that doesnât justify using bad design to punish the players not speed running, ignoring the fact that speed running is a community accepted mode of play despite whomever is on the team throwing a tantrum that people arenât doing it the intended way.
Or lets all just git gud because clearly the game is too easy or some elitist nonsense. Bad design, in place to hide bad design being exploited because of bad design is not good design.
Boss walls might be there to control really bad pathfinding for bosses. The best example I can think of is the Fort Branstonpickle 1st grim. A boss can spawn along the edge of the river and wreck teams quite easily,especially if one or two players get Tw@tted into the river. A boss wall stops you running across the log-bridge up the hill. I think in this case it is to stop the boss getting walloped into the water and players insta-killing it as it tries to navigate the bridge by knocking it into the water(The log bridge has two possible pathfinding routes).
There is a boss wall when we fight Budvar, Rasknitt and Skarritt and no one is screaming for âNerf the cage in Budwiesers camp! Doors should stay open so I can leg it past him and down the hill to the portal!â
People will argue that the War Camp, Skittergate and The Nest are scripted boss fights, but itâs exactly the same mechanic - hold the players in place until they beat the boss.
My personal opinion is that if your team are downed to a boss and youâre on your own then it is likely you are going to die - this is fairly realistic although resâing an ally would change the outcome. I would just like the spawn point for downed players to be inside the boss wall so the last lonely player might have a fighting chance. IF that happened this whole discussion would go away. Itâs one of the things people used to moan bitterly about with The Nest, that downed players spawned outside the arena and now it doesnât happen anymore people no longer moan and gnash their teeth.
Iâd like to develop a mod where speedrunners get the choice to skip any level and just press a button that says âGive me lootâ. Thatâs the whole point of speedrunning after all, and they could even uninstall VT2 and just click the button. Once they have the loot they want they could reinstall and play it like the rest of us.
[edit] @geekhaven 's example is a bug really and although it is infuriating requires a bugfix to hookrats rather than a removal of the bosswall.
i think this is a good way to view the function of the walls. however i think people are miffed more about the fact that people spawn AFTER the walls, making it really difficult to recover if only 1 person is alive. i would go so far as to say that itâs intended to be a fight to the death with no respawns.
iâm not a speedrunner but i can tell u this isnât true. people play games for many reasons. some people enjoy taking a single character and attempting to finish a level as fast as possible using all their tricks and abilities - itâs not about the loot for some. closing that option off for people kinda takes the fun out of speed running.
that being said, iâm not a fan of people trying to speedrun in quickplay games without telling others.
That is definitely an issue, in my mind a bug or quirk of the engine but its a different issue. My issue is with gameplay design. The the walls are arbitrary limitations on players, including range and scoper of engagement and as spoken earlier longevity of engagement since resources including additional players can be placed beyond the wall that do not limited the enemy and have no relevance to the lore, or previous mechanical structure of the game. They are in place for one reason alone and that is because speed running is not âintended playâ or that getting loot is not âintended playâ it is hard to tell which.
However bad design allows speed running so this bad solution is used to prevent a bad design from being enjoyed by a select few players which are a reaction to a bad design relating to the rewards for speed running greatly exceeding the rewards for playing the game normally or as developers intended. That is before we begin to gripe on about the reward system in the first place which⌠i feel needs some work though is not as bad now as I might have said a few months ago.
