Well, the first strawman was yours. Because you are dismissing the objection against puzzles by claiming that the books are optional. You know what else is optional? Finishing the run. Or even playing it. NVM, thank you, ‘Mr Git Good’.
So, I’m feeling like this has dragged on too long, and you keep saying people aren’t comprehending your OP, so let’s reiterate:
(I will for the moment disregard inb4 “git gud”, even tough I agree it comes down to “git gud”)
You are fine with mechanics:
a) that do not require pixel level precision
b) that do not require at least 960 Hz refresh rate and input lag no greater than -100 ms
c) that can be reasonably learned with practice by someone who is not a teenager with reflexes sufficient for their chosen career path of a Formula 1 driver
d) that do not require a non-default character ability.
You go on to provide several examples where you believe these points are not in effect, I also made little video to support my arguments which I will post later.
Righteous stand/screaming bell/Empire in Flames/Festering grounds: I am going to assume you meant this as a reference of a jumping puzzle done right? Since you really didn’t criticize it except that it is hard. In my opinion none of them are hard at all.
Hunger in the Dark: I will argue that it is not (a) that is violated for the precision is not at the pixel level. There is an invisible wall on the right that you can easily bumb into if you try to make the jump too safe by hugging the right too much which will make you fall, this wall is avoidable in a range larger than the order of magnitude that are the pixel sizes.
Fort: Tome 2 requires you jump at a later moment than you might be comfortable with which you can train by memorizing how much further you can walk after you cannot see the edge from which you jump. There is a broad range in which you can jump It does not have to be the latest possible pixel.
AtG: 1st tome is easy if you just execute the jumps calmly, if you spam jump brainlessly you have a risk of failure, you have a pretty large range of movement in which you can execute the jump, similarly for the chair jump, you just need to train you brain to know how far from a higher ledge you must stand before you bump into the wall or miss the jump which is also a range not of order of magnitude of a vermintide pixel
War Cap: One of the hardest for me to line up properly but there is a range you can learn where you can make the first jump, it is a little precise but not that terrible if you are within some error margin of that range you get it 1 out of three times which is enough in this case, since if you fail, you can immediately try again. You are not punished severely if you miss the jump, so I deem it does not require a Tweak.
Skittergate: The skip to tome 2 is terribly easy, there is a slight elevation before the rocks you jump on which you must use to jump from after hat you just hold W and jump, it is not precise at all.
The Pit: grim 2 is a similar jump as tome 2 in Fort just be careful with bumping into the stone pillar the beams are connected to.
Garden of morr: Grim 1 jump is very easy, there is a considerable amount of range and angle from the coffin to jump onto the withered wall from, also the wall is not perfectly horizontal, the time has a slight decline so you can aim for the lower point to make the jump distance shorter, but you do not have to. Now grim 2 I agree if you try to jump it is too precise, I get it in about 1 in (4 or 5) tries, but since you can just pick it up from below it is fine for now, but it would be nice if they made it a little easier.
Engines of war: The first Grim is terribly easy to jump to make sure you do not jump too early from the log to the first stump but that is about it. Second grim make sure you do not bump too much into the branch and the walls collision boxes and everything should be fine. Does not require any tweaks.
Horn of magnus: I am not going to talk about the tomes and first grim since they are not any harder than what has been mentioned before, the second grim is easy since you do not even have to jump to get on the lantern post you can just walk of the edge and land on it if you are looking at it. Then just crouch around the corner do an easy short jump and pick up the grim. You can even pick it up from below by jumping and spamming e (easiest for taller classes, doable but wonky on dwarf).
I don’t see any of these jumps except maybe war camp and definitely Garden of Morr 2 fail the list of criteria you provided.
I’m impressed by this response because of the dedication. I hope it helps someone.
Is this a joke? Jumping puzzles are such a small part of the game. I don’t need a 30-minute video. You can demonstrate and explain all you like, I know how to execute the jumps flawlessly, but it doesn’t mean that they’re well designed.
So many of them you can access by bypassing the puzzle and others, like the War Camp one, are just muscle memory because you have to be aware that the object geometry doesn’t suit the jumping physics or the visual placement of the objects.
I think the OP’s points a-d were just hyperbole; I don’t really agree otherwise, but the puzzles are annoying until you get used to the quirks after a lot of book collecting, and they kinda suck.
Honestly, I don’t like the book game mechanic at all; not the curse or the books taking potion slots, or doing silly jumping puzzles. I think deeds should be the primary way to get better loot on Campaign, and they should bring in some deeds with a few more of the curses from chaos wastes. The Tzeentch splitting enemies into more enemies deed is so much fun. The Vanguard one might be my favorite.
Books are only “optional” until your team starts picking up grimoires and dying off. It happens more often than not. In quickplay 9/10 teams are going for books, and about 75% just start dying off pretty quickly.
So many people play this game in a competitive selfish manner, going for kills, making things unnecessarily more difficult on purpose, and just by having them turn their brain off, and the “reason” I often hear is “Why not? It’s ez.”. Then they fail more often than not because they’re playing to show off green circles and pretending to want the books, but they don’t really care. BTW, if they played that way smart, they’d be choosing breakpoints for one or two-shotting enemies like storm vermin and trash enemies, but they often only choose crit and speed.
I’d rather not get roped into books when I don’t feel like it, so I’m incentivized to only play Cataclysm on Campaign mode unless I’m looking for some loot, in which case, in many cases, I can practically ignore the books because the team will almost always get them, and I’ll just take them when the team wants me to. I play without curse-resist, even when helping people collect books just to spite the silly curse resistance property. It’s a fun challenge with many careers to deal with low HP.
I do deeds as often as I can to get people to do them. It’s much more preferable to grabbing books, but there’s no quick-play option for it. When you play Cataclysm or Deeds, the selfish foolhardy tactics start to fail, and other careers get more opportunities to shine on different deeds because they might play to different strengths (usually battle wizard is the main one that shines when you have overwhelming numbers). With Legend, there are 3 specials that spawn all at once every few minutes and some roaming elites or the ones that spawn with waves for objectives. It’s just asking for people to go grab books and then play like green circle jerks. This is where you encounter the average, XBow Bounty Hunter, Javelin spamming Elf, Falchion+Axe Zealot, and Slayer. It gets old pretty quickly. And, of course, they always go for books and lose a lot; but they lose with a high kill count, so it’s a win for them.
Vid or point is void
I think you’re confused.
I decided to make a video guide, because why not? I’m running out of games besides this one, so I needed something different to do.
When I was new to the game and trying to find the books after I got all the DLC, I was annoyed I couldn’t find a video that included no narration and just short clips of each book location. Already familiar with the levels, I just wanted something to jog my memory with some links in the description I could use to navigate the video.
Here it is:
As of making this post, it’s still not done processing the HD video settings, so for a bit, it’ll be in 360p, but quality up to 1080p should be available eventually.
Pretty sure the first thing I did was stating the fact that some can be straight up skipped and offered specific example as to why it’s not as you described.
By your “logic” cata should be made easier to make portrait frames accessible to everyone.
I don’t mind the jumping puzzles themselves but some of them are little bit too pixel perfect. Warcamps first grim for instance took me good while to get consistent until I realized its easier to hit the jump when you intentionally miss the pole by couple pixels instead of aiming dead straight.
Not really intuitive if you ask me.
This thread reminds me of: Cuphead Gamescom Demo: Dean's Shameful 26 Minutes Of Gameplay - YouTube