don’t want to talk about VoA here, but rest of two. I means they are bad, not even to VoA but abilities of other classes, especially for infiltrate, I think both of them need some kind of rework.
feel free to share idea of how they should work
Are these abilites bad because they can’t spam gold toughness or are they not fun? I mean, they both work fine for their intended uses, where Executioner’s helps with special sniping and leans into vet’s range capabilities and infiltrate, providing disengage with a chance to get objectives done and revive, and is more defensive than zealot’s shroudfield. So both abilities are fine as they are. The problem is VoC is kinda broken at the benefits it provides, easily spammable, gold toughness, where you will take no damage, and knockback to all enemies, giving breathing room. It’s got to the point where, instead of just removing gold toughness, FS makes a game mode where the game has to throw so much BS at you just to kill you. Is venting shriek or scrier’s gaze bad because they don’t provide immediate protection like bubble? in havoc, yeah. Is Bull Charge or PBB bad because they don’t distract enemies? Again in havoc, yeah. Same with zealot, is FoTF or Shroud bad because they don’t provide gold toughness? In havoc… yeah. In Auric, all abilities generally work pretty well.
I think Exec Stance is fine, it just needs one change: a setting in options to disable the FOV zoom or only in ranged weapon wielding. Since you can swap to melee and stay in Stance and that melee kills extend Stance, it has usefulness as a melee ability. 10% Toughness regen per second + stun and slowdown immunity for potentially unlimited uptime is not a bad two points of investment. Obviously ranged benefits are still there for hitting better breakpoints with some weapons.
For infiltrate, idk. I just don’t like it conceptually so I have basically never used it (if there are penances for it, then I used it for those penances and that’s it) and don’t really know how to rework it.
It is true Infiltrate is bad
But Exe Stance is goode
biggest problem for exe stance is it slow you down alot in a fast-paced game, most of the time your teammates won’t bother to protect you and left you in horde, I really trying to like exe bolter and hellbore vet build but in result VoC are always better option even for marksman build which i don’t like to see.
and also, highlight elites/ special isn’t that useful especially for skilled player cuz they know where they are even without highlight, using it basically only for its damage boost which can also be provided a lot from keystone. not much weapon needs this amount of dmg to do efficient kill
I think it should be an ability that at least can keep up with your team
In general, yes a lot of vets press exec stance and become a turret or sniper. The new buffs coming will give an extra second and the highlight Ogryns/Monsters node extends duration to 9 seconds. You can still be mobile and position within your team’s ranks so that they don’t really need to babysit you and the extra time on duration will help make that easier.
Unless your team is just invis rushing, I don’t see what would be slowing you down as you can still sprint, dodge, or pull out your melee to extend kills on specials or elites. Highlighting isn’t completely useless as it light’s up all specials through walls, which provides you some useful intel and can help show you where the majority of special are spawning(spawn doors). Granted, as you do get more experienced and know where all the spawn doors are, the highlight kinda wears off, but intel is intel and it can save you from getting snipe from a sniper who just likes to be at the oddest of angles.
However, I will happily accept reload movespeed penalty removed/reduced while in Exec Stance. I just want to run the damn combat shotguns.
what I always encountered is: while using exe stance, teammates are more likely to get close to elites to do melee while horde coming from behind. now I have to facing two option. melee horde first then exe stance’s duration over/ teammate kill your target/ get beaten up by them. or shoot the target first and taking damage from horde
The worst thing about ES is how vastly incompatible it with the current combat dynamics. Modern DT is about really big hoards which move fast, mobs being spawned all around you on constant basis (at least on Heresy+ difficulties it’s like that). And due to FS allowing players to spam golden toughness for years and then adjusting whole damage enemies do to be able to somehow punch through it, when you don’t have golden toughness because you use some other Ability, you suffer a lot. Just 2-3 chaffers can down you in a few seconds just because you missed them spawning behind you because you activated ES and was fully focused on shooting.
I really liked idea somebody else suggested before, with ES gaining some kind of “supression pulse” once in a while, strong enough to prevent chaffers from attacking you until you keep killing stuff. Like, every kill you do gives you a very short-timed stack (so you need to kill a lot of mobs all the time to not let them expire), with elites giving a few of those at once; and when those stacks grow to a certain number, they are discarded at once and you issue a “suppression pulse”, staggering regular chaff (not elites) around you. Would make your life so much easier.
Enemies swinging at you make a woosh sound and you can still dodge with your ranged weapon out even while ADSing, I’m not sure we need extra tools to deal with taking damage due to tunnel visioning more distant enemies. Extra second duration buff will help in these scenarios as would my proposed change to FOV increase being a setting.
if just 2 or 3 poxwalkers won’t be a big deal, they even buff you by triggering that talent give you 15% dmg after dodge, but what being a issue is thick poxwalkers horde always coming from behind like every 3 min in auric
grenade are helpful but not always work since you only get one per min
If you have a full horde coming in your backside, then throw two shredders and delete them, kite back to your team so they can deal with them, or just pull out your melee weapon and kill them. If you waste an activation of Exec Stance, so what, it’s on a really low cooldown.
but it does make this talent way less efficient. while it’s buff already not that useful, and this situation happen every 3 min
more like annoying to deal with. and you shouldn’t feel that since it’s not often for ability of other classes, not even gungryn which already need buff.
What’s to say? Exec stance doesn’t work as well as VoC in high intensity game modes like Havoc, because of enemy density, and doesn’t provide much of utility.
Stealth has been always a problem, it doesn’t offer enough on vet. Some use cases put you at risk as the user, and definitely can put other players at higher risk due to how crudely the game handles aggro switching /dumping between players.
Exe Stance is great in auric to maximize DPS and hit 1 shot breakpoints that prevent enemies from even coming close to you if you have good enough aim (some weapons oneshot even Ragers/Scab Ragers on headshot, and even 1 or 2-shot Reapers). Just not good enough for Havoc for the same purpose, since you trade all potential survivibility for bringing it but Havoc enemies have bloated HP and you have limited ammo, so in general you need 1-2 more shots even with all the buffs to reach the same result. The problem is that some buffs are inconsistent in Havoc, so you will only hit that 1 shot at nearly full buffs (headshot, no melee hit recently, 10+ stacks of MFF, Exe Stance active etc).
Infiltrate has limited uses most Havoc players do not need. Supression is underpowered in Havoc to matter all that much and even in auric if we’re being honest, and Stealth gives inferior defensive buffs to VOC for having a longer cooldown. Stagger of VOC achieves the same role as Supression (crowd control), works for longer, and affects every enemy type and not just ranged enemies like supression.
Threat reduction node should be actually with exe stance, so that you don’t get harrased in the backline by enemies from the back while trying to snipe gunners and specials. But in the past people complained about an old Vet’s talent that gave them threat reduction if they stayed still, that’s why threat reduction got moved to stealth with a cooldown most likely, where it won’t see that much use not to annoy people.
Helbore build still clears though!
And Exe stance is still good with other weapons.
Yes, that is actually a rather bad investment, getting back 9 toughness every second in Havoc 40 is either irrelavant or irrelevant and a talent point used to mitigate when you F UP is always a wasted talent.
I mean Dizz, what do you need slow/stun imminuty for?
don’t they? 
So to be clear, I never referenced havoc 40 and my analysis was purely intended to the regular difficulty tiers. It’s enough regen that you can get melee’d over and over by any single enemy that isn’t a rager/mauler/crusher/bulwark in Auric and take no or single health digit damage the entire time. Applied to melee, it just means you can be sloppy with blocks and pushes and dodges. Elephant in the room is gold toughness existing as an alternative but yea.
The stun immunity/slowdown immunity is great for not getting aimpunched and not having power cycler cancelled. You can block with 0 stamina for as long as it’s active.
One issue is that in melee with the buff active, the FOV increase means you can get hit by enemies outside your vision range where they make no woosh sound. One of the reasons why I suggest they give us an FOV setting. The primary reasons are though I just don’t like being zoomed in while melee or on certain ranged weapons it’s not beneficial.
The only buff Exe Stance needs is a change to it’s highlight mechanism. The range where it highlights elites needs to be extended (currently 50m) and it needs to continuously scan for new highlights instead of only scanning on refresh. There’s only a few places on certain maps where the range matters but I expect it’ll be a bigger issue in the new mode.
Plus it need to highlight thru gas. And add an option to choose color, it’s difficult to see highlight on desert maps as it’s yellow on yellow and even more difficult to see it thru fire.