Over all, I think Vet needs a redesign in terms of almost everything. It’s extremely inconsistant compared to other Careers filling their roles.
Waystalker with Longbow and 1 shot breakpoint Handgun on VT felt better than this Crossbow, etcetc.
Executioner’s Stance:
Executioner’s Stance feels like it’s kind of needed with half of the guns to actually hit a consistant headshot damage, and avoid Marksman’s Focus.
Counter-synergy with Shotguns with lower spread
The zoom is really annoying, and I don’t get why it’s needed?
Why does the Zoom remain with Melee Weapon out? I’m convinced this must be a mod I have, because if that’s still in the game… How?
I’d much rather just have consistant breakpoints on Specials - Having to rely on the Ability for this, considering Vet has to go out of the way for Melee Talents too is really frustrating - Other Classes have access to more Special 1shots than Vet
The Talents attached to it are kind of nice to have, but pretty pointless, unless you’re doing Smoke + Wall Hacks - It also eats Talents because of this
The ‘instantly equip your ranged weapon’ part doesn’t need to exist, really
Specials are the same colour Outline as Ranged Infantry
VoC:
Boring
The fact that a lot of Vet’s survival is based around having a really short CD AoE stun that gives gold Toughness, really speaks to how poorly designed Vet is
I feel like, making the ‘Vet shares x toughness, bla bla’ part of Vet’s kit passively, or added onto offensive Talents could be a good way of just removing VoC
Infiltrate:
IF YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE STEALTH, IT NEEDS TO SOMEHOW BE IMPACTFUL AGAINST ENEMIES, AND IT DOESN’T FEEL LIKE IT IS AT ALL
Good for objectives and saving people, but it’s not damage and it’s not AoE gold Toughness and it’s not AoE utility
With Zealot, I can kind of see a Shade-like build (due to being in melee a lot more), but on Vet it’s kind of underwhelming and doesn’t do anything - The Backstab damage increases in this game seem like a bit of a meme imo
You have to take other Ability Talents to actually make it do anything decent, eating into your already taxing build
The playstyle of stealth doesn’t make sense on any difficulty, and the lack of killing power or support basically means that you’re baiting yourself to clutch, by not helping your team.
On Havoc, you could just play Zealot for that playstyle and below Havoc, things die too fast for that playstyle to ever take off.
Suggestions:
Grappling Hook (this would be cool for a Zealot Blitz)
AoE Utility, like slows, blinds, debuffs, distractions
Change VoC for something more active - like damage done = Toughness to teammates (unlimited range)
Team gets Incendiary Rounds for a period
Rapid Fire + Unlimited ammo period
Rocket Launcher or Armour Pen duration
Ranged Cleave duration
Speed boost for teammates (I feel like slows and speed boosts are something FS could have implemented in both Tide games) - Including removing attack movement slowdown while active
Auto aim or headlocking period
EDIT:
On Marksman’s Focus:
Darktide has an insanely fun movement system, that is used during combat and not just between fights, and this Keystone tells you to not use it.
My suggestion would be to make a stacking headshot thing, but Misson-wide, like the Arbites Boss damage.
I would also suggest rewarding movement based kills, E.g.
'Weakpoint damage increased by 30%
Weakpoint damage while sliding, jumping, dodging, SPRINTING (SHOOT WHILE SPRINTING BLESSING STOCKS UP) increased by 60% + Increased Rending in VERY CLOSE RANGE’
Why??? Because it lets you run a non-elite killing melee Weapon, and deal with Elites. Confine it to within 5-10ft for the Rending and everything else can be w.e range.
Currently, for many players, the only real value Veteran offers is as a healer-type support who spreads Gold Toughness using VoC to improve team survivability.
While it’s likely that the skill trees for both Zealot and Veteran will be reworked, regardless of the direction taken, game-breaking mechanics like Gold Toughness should be removed. Instead, survivability should be improved through damage reduction.
Personally, I find stealth completely uninteresting, so I would like to see it replaced with an ability that feels more engaging and fitting for the Veteran class.
Only really useful for Objectives and picking up players, which has its uses but usually a grenade explsion can accomplish the same task if an Ogryn isnt already doing that job while you cover him.
Infiltrate could use a rework. I think a turret could be in order or something to push this class to a support role…
Its tough to diagnose since most casuals want the traditional fps pew pew CoDman playstyle.
This could work, turn the vet into a Catachan .. or Tempestus Aquilons
I think the movement system in this game basically is that, but the gunplay and feeling with the guns is horrendous. And, imo, why shouldn’t it be like CoD/BF/Insert ADS FPS? If it’s fun to play like that. Just don’t make it OP.
I have no idea why other Classes are able to be so versatile, and simple + fun to play, while Vet has to be singing a sad song on a sunday, while lying face down in a puddle for the build to work.
I get the feeling they didn’t want ranged to 1shot everything, and an eventual rework after seeing how other Classes use guns, was intentional.
It’s worth noting this would make the Vet increasingly vulnerable to ranged attacks during the ability’s duration as less cover is available so there’s a reasonable tradeoff for being able to ignore melee. Great suggestion, I like this idea.
It’s crazy to me that arbitrator gets the +25% extra ammo talent right at the top of the tree in the middle while vet (the “ranged class”) has it far at the bottom left. Arbitrator also gets a +20% rending on ranged critical hit and a +15% extra ammo in your magazine, rounded up. Vet should have these talents. So much for the supposed “ranged class”
Vet’s tree is very confused. The class fantasy is a tough, experienced soldier, and to me that says several things;
Survivability. Being a Veteran guardsman takes some real skills. He should not be tanky in the traditional sense, but have a lot of tricks to keep himself alive.
Capable in all situations but a good shot. His ranged bonus definitely needs some help, and while he has ammo regen for the team, at this point it seems reasonable almost to suggest he gets more sustain for himself. Since, especially in high Havocs, ammo is exceedingly scarce, what about a node that lets him get more out of each ammo pickup?
Honestly all I’ve got. I’m okay with VoC as it is, it’s reliable (though gold toughness is OP, it gives him a very strong support role; making space is never to be underestimated in these games). His other abilities need some real work; I’d be totally in support of him losing Stealth and getting something more interesting. As others have suggested in the past, maybe he pulls out some heavy weapon and gets a few shots with it. Executioner’s Stance should be good but is just crap.
While the floating idea sounds silly, it kinda seems neat. It could break current maps, though.
Vet tree is in a weird place because Duty and Honour, Tactical Awareness, and nade spam are all bonkers then basically everything else is under par at least when point expenditure is considered. There’s gotta be some give and take here.
For Infiltrate I feel like if Hunter’s Resolve or Surprise Attack were rolled into base then one other travel node was cut out somehow it would immediately look more appealing and not cripple you for points.
I’m also increasingly fond of the idea of just giving him survivalist (only for himself not as an aura) as a base passive then putting some other nice gun buff in its place as a new aura. Maybe 15% reduced range dropoff, or 15% more effective range for guns? Something along those lines could be neat.
Also please give me a spread reduction talent somewhere so I’m not locked into Exe stance if I wanna do fun extended range brauto things. Maybe replacing Opening Salvo so it’s easily avoidable.
I feel the same about the revive subnode on VoC. Just like with Kruber Merc shout noone wants to save ability, people prefer to use it proactively and prevent knockdowns.
Make VoC revive by default (with CD adjustments), so it will be on the player when to use. Remove golden toughness nonsense, make it just +flat overtoughness with TDR/DR. If it will suck, add some minro things like +x% movespeed/attack speed buff for “y” seconds, more toughness gain on kills.
Another alternative for Survivalist isn’t ammo regen on kills, but pickups give more ammo, so your team spend less time on ammo grabbing, but it probably will reduce stuff like rumbler spam during long fights.
Right branch wich is supposed to be commando, need more run-n-gun talents, like you take less damage during the sprint/regen toughness faster during the sprint.
+Cleave or something for shotguns.
And if we are talking about pure redesign, i would make smoke nade to be an ultimate. With short delay on use. Maybe teamwise effect, but extremely short, just for reposition. I don’t like invis in DT overall, it’s either too OP, or works against your team.
And for nade - c4 alike charge, since arbitrator has mine already. I don’t see the reason for Vet and Zealot to have samy ultimates.
And the left side needs more protection, survivability for DMR alike guns, smthg like “take less damage from sides and behind while in ads”, aswell as some ads speed increase, etc.
Also i don’t mind for grenadier build, but it should be a proper build with proper cons. And more interesting talents, rather than just pure nade regen.
I tried most weapons with it, Bolter, Plasma, Revolver, infantry and braced autoguns are best options, shotguns with low spread too, i don’t know what you don’t like with them, agripinaa is best combat shotgun and best to use with this ultimate It does add breakpoints for guns, big problem is there’s no benefit to reload, ability ends it’s duration even after multiple consequitive kills to prolong it and with 25% reload speed on bolter, plasma or autoguns without reload speed talent. Also no benefits to surviveability.
VoC can be replaced along with tag keystone to grenade related abilities, middle tree already full of grenade talents.
Stealth is bad, for reasons you provided and existing stealth zealot makes it obsolete.
Vet really needs a buff or rework but you are doing horrble job at pointing out bad sides.
Both exe stance zoom and ranged-weapon equip has to stay.
What exe stance really needs is damage buff and ranged damage reduction likeit was on release.
VoC is boring indeed. Boring yet most effective.
Infiltrate is more of utility ability than of combat one. Also it gives you bonus speed and restores toughness so you can close up to a buch of gunners and suppress + kill them. It could also take a slight bugg(Because having only 5 second of extra damage is a joke), but still good and usable.
Your comment was rancid and terrible, if my responses was as bad as yours I would just stop making them. I can’t believe I’m actually going to respond to this comment, considering how bad it is. Just awful.
Why and why?
The zoom I can kind of see an argument for, but I don’t like the sudden distortion and it’s weird while moving (I think the melee thing has to be a bug).
The changing weapon, why?
Maybe I just want to see Specials through walls, and don’t need to pull the gun out.
You could just suppress or kill them with range, or someone else will kill them while you run at the enemies.
You can play team sees Specials, in which case, you wouldn’t need to pull the Ranged Weapon out. Or Smoke + that, so you can play a Weapon for Elites, and let your team deal with Specials.
Also I can just use it while my gun is out, or switch to my gun. It also doesn’t reload, so using it for utility can randomly make you pull your gun out.
My point is that it’s less impactful or useful to the team than any of the other Careers. Infiltrate is probably the worst Career Skill in the game rn.
(this would be cool for a Zealot Blitz)
Just don’t make it OP.