Assuming you’re bringing nade regen capacity means almost nothing over the course of a match. Like +1 out of 30. Unless you’re desperate to be able to throw 4 in one burst.
It actually matters a lot. I played almost exclusively full nade build on Vet before the patch so I have a lot of experience with it. I don’t feel I can properly lay it out in a logical fashion, but I try.
What I write assumes you go into grenades fully. Tinkerer, Regen, and Grenades on elite kill, just leaving the +1 out, which is already pretty heavy investment especially if you are going Survivalist.
Frag works in the following way:
- 1 Throw is for softening + CC. It will kill chaff in the detonation area, but it’s main use is to soften targets to about half health in area.
- 2 Throw is for damage, heavy softening and to clear shooters/soften gunner. It’s also used to make space and gives you time to think, ress (1 to clear 1 to prevent interruption), and to clear horde waves.
- 3 Throw is to clear Special waves, and to absolutely clear the area (used for absolutely bunched-up Gunners etc.)
Due to how Passive Regen and regen on elite kill interact you both don’t want to sit on full stack and don’t want to be fully depleted. If you only have 3 to work with you will not have enough to do what you want most of the time, while 4 gives you just enough wiggle room to both use them offensively if the situation demands it and have 1-2 on fallback if things go sour.
Having only 3 kinda breaks the flow a lot, and also if you only have 3 there are a lot of grenades lost due to the randomness of Regen on elite/special kills.
I can’t really say anything else than to try it. I don’t think it’s something that can be felt right away, but as someone who played Bleed Nades extensively in both this and the previous patch it feels incredibly impactful.
A fun extra bit is that I feel like Bleed Nades (with Tinkerer) have the same impact (and about the same or a bit less damage) on a situation as a Rumbler shot does, while not being even close as impactful against armor or bosses as Rumbler.
Edit:
Another very apparent situation that came to mind after writing the post is sitting at 3 nades when the max is for 3 vs 4.
If the situation demands that you dump them then if the max is 4 you already have the Return Over Time going so you will get back a nade for SoS use in less than 1 min, usually anywhere from 45-15 sec. On the other hand, if the max is only 3 and you are unlucky with the Nade on elite kill, you have to wait the whole 1 min to get a Nade back. It’s a very different experience.
Of course not. But you aren’t doing yourself anyone a favor bringing traditional anti-armor weapons at the moment (again, i know it’s for more than one reason).
Yes
The utility is great, have not ran into a pug using any other type of grenade (to great affect), and the supply is infinite. Pre-patch, yall absolutely would be iffy about the krak.
Yes. I stated it’s not the first thing I’d like to see changed and the change suggested is quite small and done in the spirit that having that much power should cost a little more (a hard argument to make right now, but this isn’t a psyker thread).
Ok you explained that well, fair enough, I’m not against a 4th bleed nade anyway.
I see your point but I’m not sure I would? They’re borderline single target, and it’s really hard to over state the impact of bleed nades on Vet’s overall versatility, survivability, and clutch potential. Kraks are great until you need to force a revive, or wipe large groups of smaller elites. The opportunity cost is genuinely quite high here. Pre patch krak would also have been going up against pre patch bolter for its niche… just saying. Like I’m honestly running bleed nades over Krak most of the time, but maybe I’m under valuing kraks.
Regarding rending TBC I think the depth of 2/3 rending talents in the tree gives them a pretty fair cost overall. If I want to give my brauto onslaught for more overall damage and armour flexibility I’ve gotta give up some pretty valuable stuff to get there, at very least +25% ammo reserves. Crit rending + HH/Recon is probably a bit too free. I think adding versatility of targets to your ranged weapon is a pretty fair and enjoyable option to have on Vet that helps expand the reasonable pool of weapon combos you can bring without just feeling completely awful against some targets.
Twinned Blast could perhaps work as a guaranteed effect with a long cooldown?
Otherwise, a lot of interesting feedback, I hope it gets acknowledged.
Doubtful at best. At this point it seems like FatShark has gone all-in on appeasing the “content creators” it hand-picked for their “Community Testing Team” (which I have a much more fitting name for). The rest of us are just here to be the cheering section. At best we get a pat on the back and forgotten about until the next bushfire when Catfish has to put in appearance to rally the troops (aka white knights) to stomp it out.
Ironic when you think that literally all the conditions you see in Maelstrom were the brainchild of an impromptou group of players who got creative in a single thread. No modders and no “content creators” whoring it up for attention or demanding nerfs to this and that way of playing. Just normal players with creative bents of various degrees and maybe a bit of experience coming up with ideas for RPG campaigns or tabletop scenarios. We didn’t even get credit for them or a thankyou.
Ill be honest I’m not entirely sure if Twinned blast is super useful even if it does proc, guaranteed or not. Krak grenades already one-shot anything short of boss monsters which makes throwing two at once incredibly niche, similarly I’m not convinced two overlapping smoke grenades are any more effective than just the one.
Frags would benefit from doubled blast and bleed damage but they’re also the furthest away and thus the most heavily taxed grenade to combo it with. By that point its probably more points efficient to go through Scavenger first and then branch across to grenadier with the +1 carry since its arguably a similar effect but with more flexibility, and you might actually want to invest in Infiltrate afterwards vs dead-ending at Close and Kill.
After initial wow effect from oneshoting crasher with krak left you understand how frag is much better - huge radius, short fuse, some stagger and nice damage +applies bleed.
I must be the only person still watching these things pull clueless teams through bad situations, but alright. I can accept that, bleed nade being cracked as it is.
But i also kind of already assumed bleed is up for getting toned down against armored types if not once again separated from the frag grenade and put into an extra talent. Bleed and Rend are quite obvious targets, despite the deserved angst around veteran’s very lopsided state.
Bleed and Rending interaction is one thing that’s definitely carrying more than its fair share on Vet right now. To be honest this was kinda always the case with bleed nades. After seeing around a lot of Rumbler Ogryns I started thinking about Frags as thrown Rumbler shots that are a bit easier to aim.
That said I still find Krak to be very underwhelming compared to any other blitz (apart from smoke maybe). If the armored and unyielding enemies stop being tissue paper going down from a light breeze from anything in the game that would be different of course.